Multiple Partners – Yay or Nay?

Lately I’ve been talking to people on various blogs/forums about the age-old double standard of sex:

Women with multiple partners are sluts.
Men with multiple partners are studs.

It is a common topic when speaking about relationships, and my FwB and I are no different. As some readers know, I am 29 and while I’ve been sexually active for 8 years, my only partner has been my current lover (who is 10+ years older and has had 12 partners). Although he thinks I should branch out more, he’s basically fine with being my only…and of course, I’m perfectly fine with his prior sexual experience.

But I’ve often wondered exactly why it is that some men dislike women who have sexual freedom. As I now understand it, there are a few reasons why certain men think this way;

1. Supposedly women who have had numerous partners are more likely to stray during marriage.

2. Women have a far easier time getting men to sleep with them than vice versa. Thus, a low number woman shows that she knows restraint but a high number woman shows that she is greedy or selfish.

3. There is a threat of paternity fraud with women who had multiple partners and abruptly decide to settle down, in that a woman may be carrying the child of an casual sexcapade…but pass it off as being the child of the man she is marrying and/or wants to extract money from.

4. Women are more in touch with their emotional side, and it is simply bad for them to keep falling in and out of love.

5. A woman having multiple partners is unfair, because she knows she can trade sexual favors for dinners, jewelry, cars, etc but a man cannot. This creates a huge inequality gap in society, and demeans those on either side of the relationship.

6. The resent/bitterness that a man can experience hearing about his wife sharing herself so freely in younger years VS how he has to beg for sex or be content with it only a few times a year ruins the marriage and acts as a reminder that he only had a small portion of the partners she had.

Some of these viewpoints I understand (like the fear of paternity fraud), while others I disagree with (sometimes women really DO just want no-strings-attached sex). And of course, I believe that most of these are half-truths or generalizations. As with most things in life, the Truth is somewhere in the middle.

But one part of this discussion really stood out: The greatest issue seemed to be that these men didn’t care about the fact that a woman slept around so much as they cared that she only slept with “Alphas” or “bad boys”. When I gave the example of a woman who has sex simply because she enjoys it…doesn’t ask for gifts in return…and will also sleep with nerds/geeks/shy guys…then the opinion changed. THIS was a woman who was more or less acceptable, despite her high number.

Which brings me to the title of my post (finally). I have found that as I deal with the years of sexual abuse I endured at the hands of my stepfather…I’m beginning to see more and more males as attractive. I’ll notice the way a guy’s eyes sparkle when he laughs. I’ll be stopped in my tracks by a whiff of pheromones at the mall. I have recently concluded that I dislike facial hair of any type, am attracted to men who are bigger and slightly overweight, like blonde and grey hair over black/red/brunette, and love it when I can make a man truly laugh.

Yes, it appears that my tastes run not to the standoffish, machisimo, slightly jerky, vaguely condescending “bad boys”…but to the very nerds that are supposedly so off-putting to regular women. How much of this is due to me recognizing them as mostly safe or because of my gender dysphoria? That is still up in the air. Maybe it’s because I share a dice-and-chips encrusted spirit with them…or maybe it’s because I grew to equate “Alpha” behavior with my bastard of a stepfather. Perhaps it is because I still have no desire to marry or have children. Whatever the reason, I am beginning to see men besides my FwB as viable sex partners…even though I would never take another lover over him.

Really, when I think about it, there’s not much of a reason to not enjoy myself with numerous partners someday, when I’m able to stand casual touching.

-I already know that I love sex and that I’ll try anything (safe) once.

-I am a moral and ethical person, and so would never try to do something as horrible as paternity fraud…and am nauseated by the idea of pregnancy anyway.

-I enjoy sex for sex: No prerequisite gifts required here!

-I have no desire for marriage, and will most likely always be content going my own way.

-I firmly believe in being greedy when it comes to sex, as well as being incredibly giving. If each lover tries to give more than they get, it tends to make for splendid fireworks!

-I would obviously be having these encounters with others of “my kind”, the very same men who are said to be good candidates for prolonged virginity and sexual frustration. What better way to share my carnal knowledge and tenderness than with someone who will truly appreciate it as a loving act rather than just another conquest? Besides, I love helping people, and if being validated as a sexual being helps someone to feel better about themselves…I’m for it.

What do you, my readers, think?

Next post, I’ll talk about exactly what sex means to me. For now, please feel free to comment. You can tell me how stupid I am, or let me know that you approve of my newfound feelings. Whatever you want, just remember: Keep it polite and civil to other commenters. Thanks!

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74 thoughts on “Multiple Partners – Yay or Nay?

  1. Hey Sophia, weird time to say, but I consider you one of my good blog friends, wanted you to know that.

    As to this post, the points you listed are pretty adequate, I do not know if there was supposed to be sarcasm with them, but those are legitimate points males have with slutty women. Although I have never heard the nerd vs alpha comparsion before. Doing a lot of ‘bad boys’ does make it worse, but a girl with 10+ or 20+ etc is still a 10+ or 20+

  2. Reblogged this on Autumn Leaves and commented:
    Why I don’t sleep around:

    – I love my wife.

    – I don’t want to die from liver failure due to a STD infection like my father did.

    – I do not want to be falsely accused of rape.

    – I have absolutely no desire to be financially raped by being forced to pay child support for a child I don’t want or for someone’s else’s child.

    – I do not care to partake of someone else’s leftovers.

    – I’d rather read a book then cater to the over inflated ego of a spoiled brat.

  3. Why thank you, EK. Much appreciated. 🙂

    No, there was no sarcasm in any of my post. The reasons I listed were all ones that I’ve been told directly or found in men’s health articles. I agree that having a high number is still having a high number no matter how you slice it. However, if a man (or woman, if I ever decide to partake of those feelings) does not like my number, whatever it may end up being, that is fine. Nobody should feel like they have to sleep with anyone, especially if they find something about the other person very unattractive.

  4. Thanks for the reblog!

    Your reasons for not sleeping around are yours of course, but could you clarify some of them? For example, I’m glad that you would never cheat on your wife and that you are a staunch advocate of safe sex. I also understand not wanting to be falsely accused or having to fight a paternity fraud case (which you might lose anyway in some states).

    But the “leftovers” and “spoiled brat” part are a little odd. Can you extrapolate? My initial take on them was that you and your wife were both virgins on your wedding night and you’d prefer if everyone was like that…and that you dislike how recent generations have become “me, me, me” cultures. Am I correct?

  5. Your welcome! 🙂 For me personally sleeping with a woman who has had multiple partners is like eating the leftovers from a random plate in a restaurant which is not only unsanitary but comes with the high likelihood of becoming infected with a life threatening illness.

    I’ve lived for over a half century and during that time I have carefully observed women and how they behave and I’m not impressed in the least. I have also learned that the only way to avoid giving any woman power over me is to reject her by refusing to have sex or any other intimate contact with her. Nor do I want to waste my time and financial resources currying favor with a woman who will most likely turn on me when I refuse to give her everything her heart desires.

    Whether my wife will turn on me is anyone’s guess – she hasn’t during our 32 yr plus marriage so far but the laws do and will allow her to destroy and financially rape me any time she wishes to do so. This is like living with a fully loaded gun pressed to the side of my head with her finger on the trigger and the hammer cocked back – it is definitely not the way I wanted to live my life and why I will never marry, live with nor sleep with any other female ever again.

    Hence it is far safer to express my sexuality in the erotic poems and short stories I write and much more fulfilling then living with a woman who cannot be pleased no matter how hard her male partner tries.

  6. Well, I suppose that any woman or man that has had multiple partners AND unsafe or unprotected sex could be likened to that (though I still think it’s a bit objectifying). The threat of STDs and the like are why I am such a huge advocate of getting tested…using protection…only being with partners who you can trust…and honest communication. These, coupled with a clear and accurate education about how various STDs are spread, are what responsible people should do.

    I’m very sorry that you feel your marriage is as you describe. Even after 32 years, you still don’t know that your wife loves and cares for you enough to never do such a thing? I’m not asking in a snarky way…I’m genuinely curious. Even if it is as you feel (that society has handed her a loaded gun), after 32 years don’t you think she has taken the bullets out by now?

    You also talk about “women who cannot be pleased”. Is this how you feel your relationship is currently, or are you generalizing based on other relationships you’ve seen?

  7. Unfortunately far too many women have changed their minds about their husbands and intimate partners after claiming they never would and then sought to destroy and financially rape the former loves of their lives. Would my wife do that – maybe not – but then again the fact that she can do so legally if she so choose gives me pause and destroys the trust I once had in her when we first married.

    I have yet to meet a women who would willingly marry if the laws regarding marriage, divorce and child support were written and enforced in such a way that her husband could have her removed from their home with nothing but the clothes on her back with one phone call and one well crafted lie. Then strip her of the right to see and interact socially with her children even as she is forced into poverty by the unreasonable amount of child support that is being deducted from her paycheck only to take her hard earned money and spend it on his new girlfriend instead of their children. Yet that is exactly how the average – feminist indoctrinated – woman expects the men in her life to live without the slightest mummer of discontent nor complaint.

    RE: You also talk about “women who cannot be pleased”. Is this how you feel your relationship is currently, or are you generalizing based on other relationships you’ve seen?
    ____________________

    Today’s women think that they are entitled for men to bend over backwards to give them whatever it is they want. I’ve not only experienced this directly in my own family and marriage but seen this in nearly all of the relationships and marriages I’ve had the misfortune of being privy to through social interactions.

  8. @ Sophia: “But one part of this discussion really stood out: The greatest issue seemed to be that men didn’t care about the fact that a woman slept around so much as they cared that she only slept with “Alphas” or “bad boys”. When I gave the example of a woman who has sex simply because she enjoys it…doesn’t ask for gifts in return…and will also sleep with nerds/geeks/shy guys…then the opinion changed. THIS was a woman who was more or less acceptable, despite her high number.”

    I’ll just be candid. It has been my experience that men aren’t going to think more of a woman because she fellated both the janitor AND the CEO rather than just the CEO.

    But the old joke is true to an extent: What’s the difference between a bitch and a slut? The slut will have sex with anyone. The bitch will have sex with anyone but you.

    For palling around and having casual sex, I don’t think it matters…men won’t avoid a woman’s company because she puts out, quite the contrary. Trouble is if and when you want something more, like it or not most men don’t want a woman who has been around a lot, because it devalues them in their estimation. Why? Because it should be a foregone conclusion a woman can have casual sex if she wants…men pay for it, even, it’s the easiest thing in the world to get a man to score with you. Just my opinion, of course.

  9. Fair enough. And yes, there is the incredibly remote possibility that I’ll want to get married someday. That is fine, and I’d be honest with my potential spouse whether my number is 2 or 20. They would have a right to know about my sexual past, just as I’d have a right to know theirs. I am a firm believer in open, clear communication.

    If the hypothetical man I want to marry dislikes my number enough to break ties with me…so be it. I am an adult, and recognize that my actions have consequences that I’ll have to live with. If such a thing occurs, then it occurs.

    But *if* I ever do wish to marry, it will probably be with someone who shares most of my own opinions. I’d never love someone who judges me based on what I’ve done with my vagina, just as I’d never judge someone based on what he did with his penis…whether that number is high or low. I don’t WANT my lover to think more or less of me because of my (still hypothetical) past partners. I want him to care for me as an equal, and all that entails. Luckily my current FwB is exactly this type of guy. 🙂

    The number of partners does not a person make…We all have so many more pieces that make up our whole. Focusing on just one part seems strange, at least to me. I’d much rather someone love me for my kindness, empathy, financial responsibility, willingness to work on problems, and geekiness…not because my number is low.

  10. @ Sophia: “I’d much rather someone love me for my kindness, empathy, financial responsibility, willingness to work on problems, and geekiness…not because my number is low.”

    No one falls in love with anyone because their number is low (or high). It’s a barrier, that is all. Something that can stand in the way whether you want it to or not. Doesn’t mean (hypothetical) he will find it a deal breaker, but he might find it hard to deal with later, even if initially it doesn’t seem so. People don’t always act rationally in the scientific sense, and when heavy emotions are involved they almost never do. Good luck to you, either way.

  11. Hmm, you’re surprisingly a lot like me (esp. the me in the past). Gender dysphoria (don’t have it anymore, but it was there), only one partner 10 y older, likes fat guys and incel guys, jerk stepfather (mine wasn’t really abusive, just emotionally tiring and liked to starve me).

    “I would obviously be having these encounters with others of “my kind”, the very same men who are said to be good candidates for prolonged virginity and sexual frustration. What better way to share my carnal knowledge and tenderness than with someone who will truly appreciate it as a loving act rather than just another conquest. ”

    God, you’re so right. Why share money with millionaires?

    To me, sex for the sake of sex also makes sense, but it only works if he’s not someone I love. Love makes me selfish and makes me want to have him all to myself (and I do). I never managed to have too much sex for the sake of sex though, too afraid of increasing my chances of getting some disease. I would do it if I wasn’t so paranoid and didn’t have a desire for lasting romantic love as soon as possible. Seeing that you don’t have these obstacles, you’re probably not stupid to think you should try more guys.

  12. This is true, but I’d hope that rational thought would take the day in most instances. At least, that is how I try to solve problems;

    -validate the other’s feelings
    -keep a calm voice
    -don’t use words like “never” or “always”
    -leave the room if tempers get too high and finish talking later

    I’ve found that while emotions can run high, there are ways to temper them with clear thought. And, of course, if he did take issue with it, I’d do whatever possible to help soothe the situation. After all…isn’t that what you do for those you care about?

    Thank you for your points and opinions. They were good to read, and I appreciate your different point of view.

  13. Interesting. We do seem to share some live experiences.
    I have never tried sex for the sake of sex…I’d be far more likely to do it as a way of helping others. Validation is a powerful thing indeed!

    I am almost incapable of being selfish, even with my FwB. True, he is the only man I’ve ever shared sex with…but I don’t own any part of him. I have tried, but find it impossible to think that way. Guess I’m just weird and unromantic… 😉

  14. My question is do men really have a problem with high count girls? If getting to many notches on your bed post makes a woman unattractive, how does she get so many notches? If men really did have issues with “high counts” then this would provide a cap on the count. After 5 or so, it would start getting harder to find someone to fuck. After 10 it would become very difficult. If men really did have a problem with high count girls then there would be a cap of 15,20 or something where you just couldn’t find any one willing to fuck. I expect it’s not really men that have a problem with high count women, but other women. When a woman sleeps around, it cheapens sex. Then other women can’t charge the premium they want for sex.

  15. Hi Sophia, this is my first time reading your blog – I’m enjoying it so far!

    I am in a monogamous relationship at the moment, but I enjoyed a more casual sex life prior to this relationship, and honestly, I wouldn’t change a thing. I learned a lot about myself and what I like and don’t like. The majority of my friends have had more than one partner, and I think for most of us it wasn’t a conscious decision to start accruing partners. I don’t have a problem with people waiting until marriage to have sex or being casual about it – I think it’s more important to have an idea of what you want when you decide to start having sex, but know that you’ll change as you get older and that life is not predictable, so maybe the original “plan” might evolve.

    My boyfriend was actually sensitive to the fact that I had slept with people prior to him, but I don’t think it was really for any of the reasons listed (mind you, we are both 23 and unmarried) – for him, I think it was because we share a loving relationship and he couldn’t imagine me having loving sex with another person. I however, don’t feel like it was loving, passionate sex with other people – it was a different kind of good-time sex! For my boyfriend, imagining who I had been with prior was much worse than the actual reality, and once we talked about it and I explained to him what actually happened, it really eased his mind. 2 years later, this is not longer an issue in our relationship – at all!

    Thanks for a thoughtful post!

  16. See all the numbered points I’ve provided? These are not things that I’ve created myself…they are from various blogs, articles and forum comments. It may be that other women do have a problem with it as you describe. However, all of these things I speak of here where comments from men.

  17. Hello, and thank you for stopping by, nmreyes!

    Like yourself, all of my friends have had more than one partner…despite being stereotypical geeky men. 🙂

    While my decision is a bit more conscious than most, I have no issue with either men or women waiting for marriage OR being casual. So long as everyone is practicing safe, consensual sex, it is up to others to do with their own bodies as they wish.

    And you’re right: Life is not as predictable as some would like!

  18. Say and do are very different things. Of course men SAY these things, they are instructed to by the women in their lives. How many High count women do you know that have actually been dumped or turned down because of their count? I know of zero. If men actually considered high counts a bad thing, it would take intentional hard work and dedication for a woman to get the count over 10.

    There is one possibility I had hadn’t considered before. Most men really won’t date a woman with a high count. For a woman to get a high count she needs to not be dating mainstream men, but the STD ridden possessive jealous all around bad man whores. It takes a whole truck load of crazy to do that to yourself, and I would want no part of that.

  19. I always assumed it was a psychological remnant of when people were more religious and forbade non-married sex at all. In my country, an unmarried woman who isn’t a virgin is a huge deal. But if a guy were to do it… who would know?

    This is unfair, and even though I’m a Muslim girl who doesn’t even want to have sex, it makes me sad. Why do we look down on women more than men for doing the same exact sin?

    So I think that in freer, less restricted countries, this was how it was before. And although people liberated themselves from the restrictions of the church, it wasn’t that long ago so there’s still this unconscious stigma.

    Well, that’s my interpretation. But really, what do I know. ;p

  20. Come on, bzzfft…you know a lot!

    I didn’t include it since it wasn’t one of the reasons I saw, but I agree with you. The various Abrahamic religions do tend to have a lot of pull in regards to sexuality, even nowadays. One thing I want to point out though: The magical hymen that supposedly “proves” virginity is complete bullsh**. About 30% of girls are born without one, and those that do have one usually wear it away LONG before they have sex. After all, it is a piece of skin 2cm in thickness that is already perforated so that menstrual blood can flow through. It is located only 2 or 3 inches into the vagina, and is somewhat stretchy.

    People still like to think of it as some uber-thick solid barrier that only a 6+ inch long penis can reach, and that every “true” virgin bleeds and has lots of pain the first time she has sex. While some unfortunate women *do* encounter this if they have an abnormally thick one, or have never stretched it out by masturbating/bike riding/horseback riding/gymnastics/etc, about 60-78% of women never have any problems. In all honesty, it is just about as difficult to tell virginity in a girl as it is in a boy.

    Personally, I first had vaginal sex when I was 21. I did not bleed at all, and I only had a slightly uncomfortable stretching sensation closer to my cervix. Of course, I was on top, so it was not a problem to set a pace that I was comfortable with. All in all, both of us were very happy with the experience…though it does get better with practice. 😉

    If I may, why don’t you want to have sex? You don’t have to answer if this question is too personal, I’m just curious.

  21. @GNL: “Say and do are very different things. Of course men SAY these things, they are instructed to by the women in their lives.”

    So the masses of men who claim they don’t want a woman who has been shagging lots of other men are lying, and really want a slut? And they are lying because women have instructed them to. That’s pretty belittling to men.

    @GNL: “How many High count women do you know that have actually been dumped or turned down because of their count? I know of zero. If men actually considered high counts a bad thing, it would take intentional hard work and dedication for a woman to get the count over 10.”

    No one has claimed (to my knowledge) that men won’t have sex with women who have been with a lot of men. If that were true prostitutes would be out of business within a week. They prefer their girlfriends/wives to have not been with other men. “Actually dumped due to their count?” Dumped indirectly, yes, I know a lot of people like that. Like economics there is what is seen, and what is unseen, this isn’t a linear relationship, it’s a more complicated equation. Anyone with any experience in life and relationships whatsoever knows the past can interfere with the future and present. It’s not rocket science, this.

  22. You covered a lot of reasons that are probably accurate, if unreasonable.

    I find the first one interesting since studies show that men who have a lot of partners are more likely to cheat, themselves. So shouldn’t women be worried, too?

    I’ve also heard of men fearing comparison to other men. Of course, women could worry about being compared with other women, too.

    I suspect the main reason why men worry about women’s numbers are that they’ve been taught to.

    And that probably arose with patriarchy. If you look at many egalitarian or matriarchal societies no one cares who women sleep with, or how many guys. But then you don’t know who daddy is. These societies are matrilineal and matrilocal, and property gets passed through women. That gives women a lot of power. No wonder patriarchies want to know who daddy is and work to subdue female desire toward that end.

    I plan to blog on this sometime.

  23. I do know all of that hymen stuff you just said, but it wasn’t common knowledge before. So my interpretation, I think, still stands.

    And, well, I don’t mean not ever… it just seems messy to me. You opened this Door of Gross by asking, so here goes. Where does the sperm go? I don’t want a baby. And if we’re using a condom, where does the vagina fluid go? … On the bed? Will it drip on the floor on my way to the bathroom? And my God what about body image issues?

    But realistically, I will do it eventually. After marriage, because of my religion. And I’m not supposed to, but I do have a boyfriend who knows all that stuff you said, and he planned it out already, lol: that I’m going to be on top so I can be comfortable. Still not looking forward to it, though.

  24. Yeah, sadly your interpretation is still talked about more. Maybe in another 10 years, it’ll be different.

    And don’t worry, I’ve never thought of sex as being gross (unless we’re talking about STDs). I can only tell you based on my experiences, but here goes:

    A man’s typical ejaculation is only about 2 teaspoons worth of fluid, sometimes less. If you don’t use a condom, it will be in your vagina and individual sperm will swim towards your cervix. Obviously, using a condom is the easiest way to prevent pregnancy, and in that case the sperm will stay in the reservoir tip of the condom.

    Your vagina fluid, or lubricant, is also fairly little unless you have overactive Skein glands (might have spelt that wrong). In this case, you may “squirt”…but it isn’t typical for a woman to ejaculate. I’ve been having sex for 8 years and it has never happened to me.

    As for dripping on the floor? Well, if you’re using a condom and it’s just your fluids, it usually just trickles a little bit. If you think that it will be too much, just keep a washcloth or some tissues near your bed and wipe yourself off before standing. Yes, a tiny bit will get on the bed, but other than a really small wet spot and faint musky smell…it’s not very noticeable. And of course, your guy has his own scent too.

    Body images issues are a big deal for some, not as much for others. Just keep yourself healthy and try to stay trim. If you’re worried about the size of your breasts, hips, stomach, etc don’t be. If you are that concerned, ask your boyfriend…although the fact that he wants to have sex with you and cares enough to have you on top *probably* means he thinks you look lovely.

    It is fine to wait til after marriage, for whatever reason. If I may, I’d suggest engaging in masturbation until you are confident you know exactly what your body likes. That way you can be at least a little more informed and be able to talk about your likes/dislikes on your wedding night. (Sorry if this suggestion is too forward.)

    Feel free to contact me directly with any other questions!

  25. I don’t know how many partners you’ve had, but would you be okay with a woman saying she doesn’t want you for a relationship if your N is over 10? Or, if you want to flip it, would you care if a woman said she didn’t want a real relationship with you because your N is under 5?

  26. I truly hate this double standard and am ashamed that it should still be an issue today. What’s more important to me is that my partner(s) have engaged in safe sex, not the number of past or present partners they have had. This applies to males and females equally. This double standard absolutely reeks of sexism.

  27. I truly dislike it as well, given how harmful it is to both sexes. Thanks for adding your voice!

    What type of social change do you think would make sex viewed more equally?

  28. I think more acceptance of sex as a natural and healthy activity in general. Sex is still, all too often, viewed as something taboo. There’s so much baggage around sex, often wrapped up on religion and ‘traditional values’ that muddle the entire situation. Increasing acceptance of it and one’s informed choices to engage in it would also serve to help mitigate the double standard.

    In promoting sex positivity, I would add that its equally important to promote the idea that its ok to choose not to have sex as well. Sex positivity needs to go both ways.

  29. Thank you, vampyremage. Yours was quite the beautiful response. And yes, I completely agree that asexuality (or even people who only engage in self-love) needs to be accepted just as much as other consensual and safe acts.

    Did you, by any chance, have anything to add to my most recent post “What Is Sex?” You have good ideas, and I’d truly appreciate your input/opinion. 🙂

  30. Yes, if you don’t mind and you have the time. I have (to my knowledge) never known an asexual or demisexual person, until recently. Your viewpoint would truly be an eye opener, at least to me.

  31. There is another reason… The strongest reason, really. I don’t always feel this way, it comes and goes, but sometimes I just get this feeling that women are SEX OBJECTS that just happen to have thoughts. That makes me mad and selfish – I don’t want to share my body with anybody.

  32. I’d agree with EK, so for what it’s worth…

    the woman has an equal right to enforce her standards, totally fair.

    in my recent experience, however, the woman did not want to know my N. Actively told me that she did not want to know. I knew from earlier (pre-relationship) discussion that her N was low enough for me, she knew that my N was higher than hers.

    I realise that this is only anecdote, but thought that it might interest you. FWIW it’s totally true.

  33. Hey, nice to see you, St Swithunus!

    Okay, I can get behind people who have certain standards. What I don’t like is the men who have sex with 50 partners, but snub a woman because her N is 5. The idea of a man being able to have sex without any repercussion…only to demand that their future wife be a young virgin.

    That’s the double standard I have trouble with.

  34. And nice to ‘talk’ to you again Tarn… it’s been a while. Missed you on JFG.

    I can’t really see it as ‘double standards’ TBH. I’d far rather leave it on the individual level; if it works for both of you – great, if not for one of you, then that is a shame.

    All I would point out to young women (not as a shaming tactic, but as a ‘best be aware’) I do think that men tend to be hardwired to seek low N for commitment (ONS/STR are different). Not all men are like that. But in my experience, many/most are.

    AFAIAC women are free to adopt whatever standards that they like – may both sides be content with the outcomes of their standards (however realistic, or otherwise). You learn how the real SMP works, you make your choices, and then you take your chances with any possible consequences.

    I have no religious agenda, I’m not interested in shaming anyone, none of that. All that I am in favour of is people of all types/makes/models understanding the market place before they create consequences that they come to regret.

    I haven’t got any hard and fast reasons for supporting my claim, but I suspect that you listed the smorgasbord of possible contributing factors from the genetic past. Most likely being that a monogamous male makes a huge investment in raising a child (historically speaking), he wanted to know that the kid was his. For whatever reason, female promiscuity is commonly hardwired to be deemed a bad thing when looking for a lifelomg faithful partner to procreate with.

    The fact that I suspect genetic level programming means that I don’t see the point of calling it ‘double standards’. I don’t believe in a ‘blank slate’, I do believe in plasticity over hard wiring, but that’s not the same thing. You will not shame most men into preferring high N over low N because it isn’t social conditioning (IMHO).

    Women tend to have their own hardwired preferences – doesn’t that make it ‘fair’?

    (I tried to deliver a cool description of my opinion of reality, hope that I succeeded, I guess that we’ll see)

  35. No, what you say is totally fair. I also would greatly prefer that it stay on an individual level between couples. Unless it is dangerous/harmful, I don’t agree with societal norms telling people of either sex what they “have to do”.

    The only thing that I’d point out is that in modern-day matriarchal societies, it doesn’t appear to be hardwired into males to crave low N females. Both men and women are more sexually accepting, women typically experience more pleasure during sex, and a child’s name/property is passed through the mother. Then again, they tend to also operate under more of a “village raising a child” form of parenting.

    This is far more egalitarian and suitable imo.

  36. I really hope you dont subscribe to ‘numbers dont matter’ crowd.

    You want to know why numbers matter? There is a HUGE correlation to girls with high counts and higher levels of cheating.

    Its not that hard to compare say a virgin girl marrying a guy to a 20 count girl marrying a guy, which is more likely to wander.

  37. In the studies I’ve read about this, it appears that high N women AND men are more likely to cheat. If the data only showed such for women, then I’d think there was a point.

    But as it stands, it seems that both sexes would do well to have a low number of sexual partners. In my opinion, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…that’s all.

  38. @Tarn
    I believe the stats show that when nuclear families work, they work best for the kiddy outcome. Which is all that I’m interested in to be honest. happy kids growing up and producing a healthy society. My preference for that society is that it has as few rules as possible – live and let live, basically. We need fewer ideologues running society (into the ground) and less dogma imho. (nuclear family to me probably equates to committed, loving parents, rather than some horror flashback to the 50’s ‘nirvana’ of defined roles for all).

    I’m not really a fan of the village approach as I’m not convinced that it’s working very well, particularly not for the boys. The role models available to them (sans men in loco parentis) are on TV and they suck. The village is also very light on the carrot and heavy on the stick toward boys – where is the reward for being what used to be called a good man? Why would they want to man-up and throw themselves into the machine / under the bus, when there’s no pay off for that behaviour anymore?

    N?
    With declining marriage rates and increasing single moms, I’m not sure that men are committing as much as they used to. I’d speculate that they are less commital to high-N women, less commital in a freer sex environment, but I’d also guess that easy divorce (on painful financial terms) means that they see less commitment coming back from the women too. There’s enough room for multiple effects occurring in parallel, I reckon, and little concrete evidence to identify the key ones.

    As I said before, I have no religion and no political agenda and I have no interest in starting a flame war. I thought that I’d try and add a taste of male oriented insight to your polite discussion…mea culpa 😉 But I like your insight and your approach to debate, I think that both are helpful.

  39. Oh certainly, I am not being hypocritical about a high count guy; that being said though I would say a high count guy is likely to be more loyal than a high count girl, all else being equal.

  40. I believe that you’ll find stats supporting his comment. But you’re unlikely to like where they are likely lurking:
    hookingupsmart
    dalrock
    (and worse, probably) Roissy/Heartiste

    (feel free not to publish this, no offense will be taken)

  41. The only one of those I refuse to visit is Dalrock. Be that as it may, I just want to ready the full studies…not the parts of the studies that promote that writer’s post.

    For example if Writer A decides to talk about infidelity, and finds a study that says 70% of married men cheat and 50% of married women cheat…but they only mention women’s affairs or downplay men’s affairs then they are being dishonest.

    It’s like expecting a non biased report on homosexuality from Focus on the Family…it’s never going to happen. Whereas I’m neither an MRA *or* a Feminist, so I don’t care WHAT the Truth is, so long as there’s no spin on it.

    And your comment doesn’t violate my policy, so of course I’ll let it through! 😉

  42. The only reason I believe that married men cheat more than women can be boiled down to one word: Opportunity. While it is certainly true that there are more women in the workplace than 70 years ago, the truth is that many of them “drop out” to become housewives…mothers…or part-timers. Not usually so for men (I’ve only known 1 househusband my whole life).

    It’s not that I believe women are somehow more loyal, or that men are inherently disloyal. I just know that men (in general) are subject to more temptation, whether it’s a flirtatious female coworker who’s willing to have sex with him more often than his wife or a kind woman that gives him emotional support and validation while they discuss business plans at a restaurant. Compare this to the women who stay at home with the kids, go to daycare or parties with other moms, or only work part-time so they can get home in time to make dinner.

    The numbers of most reports still say that men cheat more, although women ARE catching up. But men will probably always have more opportunity, regardless of their prior-to-marriage number.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122782458360062499.html

  43. via Heartiste (where the language is…heartistian) we get him citing this post
    http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

    Cohabitation, that is “living together” before marriage has been shown to increase the risk of subsequent divorce of a couple. Many investigators have felt that the practice of cohabitation is selective for people who don’t value marriage highly and hence are more likely to divorce when stress is put onto the marriage. In essence, it was thought that the cohabitors more “liberal values” placed them at higher risk of divorce.

    Jay Teachman, an academic, investigated this matter further. The study, which is available online, makes for interesting reading. Teachman’s genius was to look stratify the cohabitors risk of divorce by the by the number of sexual partners/cohabiting history.

    The study was based on data from the National Survey of Family Growth 1995 cycle and involved over 6500 women.

    It was controlled for a host of variables.

    The study was in no way sponsored or funded by any conservative organisation.

    Teachman’s conclusion:

    The results presented in this article replicate findings from previous research: Women who cohabit prior to marriage or who have premarital sex have an increased likelihood of marital disruption. Considering the joint effects of premarital cohabitation and premarital sex, as well as histories of premarital relationships, extends previous research. The most salient finding from this analysis is that women whose intimate premarital relationships are limited to their husbands—either premarital sex alone or premarital cohabitation—do not experience an increased risk of divorce. It is only women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship who have an elevated risk of marital disruption. This effect is strongest for women who have multiple premarital coresidental unions. These findings are consistent with the notion that premarital sex and cohabitation have become part of the normal courtship pattern in the United States. They do not indicate selectivity on characteristics linked to the risk of divorce and do not provide couples with experiences that lessen the stability of marriage.

    Executive summary: It’s not the liberal values, it’s the number of partners that matter.

    I’m going to bow out now as I’m not of the US so am not going to argue the merits of the sources…

  44. Yes, I’ve seen this before, or at least this excerpt of it. The only thing about it that I noticed was that it (seems to) have only interviewed women. 6500 of them, in fact! But where is the corresponding information where they interview 6500 men?

    It’s one thing to say that a PERSON is more likely to cheat or divorce if they’ve had multiple partners before marriage (which the data supports) VS saying that a WOMAN is more likely to cheat or divorce.

    Like I’ve mentioned on other posts, I don’t consider myself female, and even if I did…I’m me, not all women. If real, unbiased data from numerous studies show that women cheat more than men, that’s fine. I’ll accept it. I’m not getting married anyway, I have no horse in this race.

    But I *am* interested in Truth, not just the truth that is convenient to my arguments.

  45. “But I *am* interested in Truth, not just the truth that is convenient to my arguments.”

    I was clear on that (I wouldn’t bother commenting at all otherwise), my delicacy of wording was more that I didn’t wish to start a flame war on your nice blog…I’m trying to play nicely, guest that I am.

    anyway, you make reasonable points that I can’t address myself right now (time!). But if I can even add to the questions that might kind of edge towards a resolution (we can dream) (?)

    There is a meme that male infidelity causes less break ups than female infidelity. The ‘reasoning’ being that females on the whole cheat because they are in the process of checking out of the marriage, whereas men tend to do it ‘just’ for variety in sex (it’s not as related to the health of the marriage – strange as that might sound)

    if that is true, then infidelity by females is more key to marriage survival than that by men (un-caught men, I’d guess. caught men might trigger the wife to pull the plug)

  46. Don’t worry about delicacy with my blog. So long as you are not cursing up a storm, making hugely gross generalizations, using religious texts to tell others what to do, or being cruel to other commentors…You’re a-ok in my book. Discussions can get a little heated, so long as they don’t burst into flaming, fiery explosions. 🙂

    Totally understand the time factor. If today wasn’t my one day off this week, I wouldn’t even have time to approve your comments!

    Hmm, you raise an interesting point. It is true by most accounts/studies that men tend to cheat for sexual release…women tend to cheat for emotional validation. Obviously, each of these “people” don’t feel like they are getting enough of it at home. I’ve often heard that emotional infidelity IS far more dangerous to a marriage than sexual infidelity. I think, just so long as no STDs are involved, this is true. It comes down to a married man who just wants sexual/physical validation VS a married woman who wants emotional validation/love and then *also* has sex on top of it.

    So yes, I agree with your assertion that female infidelity is harder on a marriage than it’s counterpart. But if you’re in a loveless/sexless marriage with a partner who isn’t willing to compromise…do you really want to be in it anymore?

  47. “Hmm, you raise an interesting point.”

    it’s my raison d’etre…so thank you very much for that comment.

    I’m very sceptical about a lot of the ‘data’ out there due to biases in the acquisition of the data, processing of the data, choosing of ‘what the data says’ and the needs of the guy paying for it. Very similar to a point that you made above, I think.

    So, I tend to stick to raising what seem reasonable (gut instinct / life experiences) points. I am very interested to hear when people produce data that runs counter to that, because (if the data is valid) it shows that I missed something in my thinking (bad! bad!). I’m very keen to keep my inner map (values, assumptions, ‘how fings werk’) accurate with the real world. I doubt that you’re much different TBH.

    “So yes, I agree with your assertion that female infidelity is harder on a marriage than it’s counterpart. But if you’re in a loveless/sexless marriage with a partner who isn’t willing to compromise…do you really want to be in it anymore?”
    nope. and I can prove it, I’m divorced,

  48. About the significance of N to future partners. An anecdote.

    I’m in a relationship with a man who had relationships before. One of them was actually with a woman who sold sex before dating him (a prostitute). It didn’t bother him and was not the reason for the dissolution of the relationship.

    I was a virgin before meeting him. He told me “You didn’t have to be a virgin, but it still made things extra special”.

    This is how I think dudes look at a woman’s N. First of all, some men can even date a former prostitute and be ok with. Tolerance of past partners varies in men. Some can’t stand even an N of 1, others are ok with 10. Second, lower is often better for relationship, even for super-tolerant men.

    Should men be held to the same standard? Perhaps, if the individual woman valued low N that much. Problem is, men often put lower N higher on the list of conditions for a relationship. It’s not possible to shame men into having low Ns, because they are more rewarded for having high Ns, than women are. But it’s possible to choose for yourself, what standards you have, and stick to them.

  49. That sounds like an outstandingly realistic view…FWIW

    I’m sure you could scratch around and find a few ideologues (of various makes and models), if you wanted to get dragged into a fantasy war. But I doubt that you’ll get much argument from most men about it’s reasonableness.

  50. Correct, some men (like your boyfriend and my lover) don’t care about numbers at all.

    I don’t understand the “extra specialness” of something like sexual inexperience aka virginity. To me, it’s not good, bad, special or pure. It is simply doing something you’ve never done…like learning to fly a plane, or taking a college course for the first time.

    You are correct that low N is found to generally be better for a marriage…but I think you’re forgetting that it has been shown to be thus for both men and women. In fact, if you look at the study I linked to a few comments above, men are STILL more likely to have affairs outside of marriage by a few percentage points.

    This, and only this, is the issue that I have. Regardless of whether they DO have a high N, it is accepted without complaint or shame in our society for a man to have multiple partners before marriage. On the other hand, women are still shamed for doing the *exact same thing* under the guise of her becoming less suitable for marriage. If the data didn’t show that BOTH men and women are more at risk (not guaranteed!)to philander then I’d concede the case.

    But until then, I’d like us to:

    A. Stop having a double standard and let men AND women know that a spouse with a high N might be more likely to cheat on them or

    B. Change the way our culture looks at sex as a way to get material goods/prove one’s worth as a human being. I’d like it if *no one* was shamed for enjoying sex, everyone was taught to respect their sexual partners, our schools/colleges gave 100% accurate information regarding sex and contraception, and to cease treating relationships as something you can simply throw away when they don’t work for you.

  51. @Tarn & Emma

    It’s nice talking to reasonable people on the internet…takes a bit of getting used to though

  52. TarnZsssie The Great

    Whats good! I like this post * fist bump* and since I have come late to the party I have chosen to ignore everyone else’s comments and focus on the nonsense I am about to say because that how a USDA choice blog crasher like me rolls.

    You mention a double standard I am well acquainted with. Allthough I think it’s bullshit it’s been conditioned into my head. I havent let it influence my pipe-laying decision but it is nice to slowly grow aware to the social and familial conditioning we have had grafted onto us over the course of time.What was communicated to me as an explication I will communicate to you
    well because that is what one does on a comment section. I just want to repeat this is not how I do things. I’m all for multiple partners especially if it is at the same time.

    This is what I was entrusted with to pass on to the next generation, basically all that you said before just maybe a little more colorfully

    1. Basically since a man has to have permission from the lady to have sex, the more women he has sex with speaks to either how good a salesman he is or how well he has cornered a small niche in the market. Since sex is an amazingly volatile commodity as a man its
    commendable, supposedly..

    2. A woman who had a lot of sexual partners didn’t have a very high standards, anyone who could buy her a box dinner would get a box dinner later that night and then some. Supposedly the higher one’s standards for a potential lover the less one has sex. Generally anyone with really low standards isn’t to be trusted in a relationship. I circumvented all these problems by having no standards lol j/k

    3. I remember in the 80’s generally anyone with a long sexual history of partners was frowned upon because of AIDS and STDs So there was always this sorta idea that if a woman’s vagina has seen more traffic than the Holland Tunnel (its a NYC thang) then
    like the Holland tunnel it was kinda of dirty, worn, unkempt. Same applied for men, if his dick has ploughed more field than a John Deere .. I don’t have to finish that one

    4. Supposedly there is no merit to a woman having a lot of sexual partner because pretty much it’s easy for a woman to get laid as almost any
    guy would be down to intrude upon her intimates (did you enjoy that euphemism) No one likes anyone who got any easy. Similar hate to the kind
    young rich kids get.

    5. Generally there was the idea to that a woman who has gotten used to dining at the All the Dick you can Eat buffet, no matter what she says can never settle
    down with just rice and beans every night.

    Who doesn’t want no string attached sex. I mean you get to go through the all the motions and retire back to your own sad life, watching reruns and going to work.

    ____________

    Many Women and Men are completely lost I feel about “Alpha and Beta Male” Actually Imma write a post on it for you TarnZsie. Yeah ok Thats it feeding time at the zoo is over

    MrMary

  53. “Its not that hard to compare say a virgin girl marrying a guy to a 20 count girl marrying a guy, which is more likely to wander.”

    Really?
    I know a woman who used to be a virgin before she was married cheated on her husband,saying she missed the opportunity to play the field during her single days..
    So no,I don’t think a virginal bride is less likely to wander than a girl with high count ex-partners..

  54. One thing hasn’t been touched on – the completely sexually honest man.

    How about the following? A demisexual Asperger virginal guy like myself? A bloke who needs a strong trust bond in place before he would give himself sexually to a woman? We aspies are honest to a fault. When linked with demisexual functioning and a restricted sociosexual oritentation, it means guys like me lead with our hearts first. I’d need the emotional bond in place FIRST before my affective sex drive spun up. I’d need to know she had solid integrity, honesty etc -and know that I was safe before I considered making love with her.

    Oh – bung in the massive responsibility felt as well. I knocked back an offer of sex in my 20s as I was in no position to be a father, so I looked out for her best as well.. wouldn’t want to risk her getting pregnant.

    If I were to give myself to someone – I’d be dropping all barriers to the very core of my being, she’d have administrative access to my very core. As well as the ability to build me up, she’d have the ability to utterly destroy me.

    I’d want that honest bond in place, and for the woman to be as honest with me as I would be with her. I’d be terrified of being used and tossed aside.

    I was sexually abused by girls when I was 13 – a sociosexual developmental age of 8. So I’ve known the worst of women – probably feeds into the fear..

    But my sexual core training is more based on the cultural norms in the late 70s and early 80s in the UK.

  55. Oh – and even contemplating cheating or being cheated on would devastate me… and I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.. So I wouldn’t even go there.

    Sadly it seems as if everyone is playing opportunistically – and with battle lines drawn and a war raging, I’m hiding in the bomb shelter until ceasefire is declared.

    In the sociosexual wars, I’m a noncombatant. A civilian.

  56. Hi Al. Thanks for your input.

    This post was written a while ago, and I’ve come to the conclusion that while I will undoubtedly have more sexual partners in my life, that I would not be into casual sex or random partners. Your own description of having your barriers down during sex is eerily similar to my personal experiences. Whether this means I’m demisexual…I don’t truly know.

    I have a good number of customers who are somewhere on the autism spectrum, many of them aspies like yourself. Honesty and lack of subtleties is one of the reasons I can interact easily with them. The way you guys view the world is pretty refreshing, truth be told.

    I also agree with the safety aspect, especially as my lover and I are into light bdsm. Trust is paramount in any relationship (or at least should be), but even moreso for people like you and I who’ve been abused by others at young ages. We have already known what it’s like to be used in the worst way…as a piece of meat or tool rather than a thinking, feeling person in our own right.

    If you don’t mind, I’d like to know more about the sexual core training you speak of. If you’re comfortable, that is.

  57. I’m still a virgin – but I have run my own libido in a sandbox (as in a test mode).. but also remember when I threw some offers into touch (before the abuse memories resurfaced).

    I had a perfect storm of messages silencing me – a mix of the then-current disbelief that a boy could be an abuse victim – man bad woman good, 2nd wave feminism (Dworkin/Mackinnon type was running hard) aka “You as a male are a rapist”, AND the AIDS crisis.

  58. Sociosexual wars…that’s a good way to put it. As I said in a more recent post, I find most random relationships very confusing. And yes, I agree with you; It appears that many are out purely for themselves.

    I personally am not the cheating kind either, as is evident by the fact that I’m nearly 30 and have only had my FwB. However, I wouldn’t consider it “cheating” if he decided to have more sexual partners than just me. It’s not like I own him, and so long as he uses protection against STDs while with the other woman, I don’t mind. (He had a vasectomy years ago, so there’s no threat of pregnancy anyway.)

    As for other people cheating…Well, I can understand it on some level. If you are in an unloving or sexless relationship where the other person refuses to admit there’s a problem, and for some reason you can’t get a divorce or want to stay together for the children, I can understand that. I think it would be better to be open about it though, and of course responsible for your health and the health of all involved.

    It’s sad that people have to go to such lengths.

  59. Al, I’m sympathetic to the fact you had to go through that…all of it. Putting your libido through a sandbox mode sounds good and safe. I did the same thing when I was recovering (my abuse memories are from age 10-17, and never had a chance to get repressed/forgotten).

    The idea that “man = rapist” is one that Toy Soldier covers on his blog a number of times, as well as male rape survivors who were made to go through “therapy” sessions normally reserved for sexual predators. If you haven’t visited his site yet, I would highly recommend it. A recent link can be found on my Why Rape Is Seriously Hilarious post if you don’t feel like Googling it.

    Cheers.

  60. Howdy. As I read your list of issues men have with women who sleep around a lot, I found myself agreeing with every one of them. They are all legitimate points, and you did not explain what, if anything, you thought was wrong with them throughout this article.
    I, like Erudite Knight, have never heard that men only care if the woman’s partners have been “bad boys.” That is not to say it doesn’t happen, just that I read this stuff all the time and have never personally seen it.
    I also understand that I am “weird” in not really giving a shit what a woman does with her vagina when she’s not physically in my company (though I also don’t need to or enjoy hearing about it). I think maybe the reason is that I don’t plan on being monogamous with anyone, at any point in my life, and believe that “fair is fair.”
    It is interesting, as children we are taught that “sharing is caring,” yet when we grow up and take lovers, we’re taught “this is mine! mine! stay away!” So perhaps the reason most men are upset about it is that, in my opinion, far more men than women stay true to their monogamous commitments and they expect fair play while also understanding it’s not likely to happen.
    As I’ve said many times over the years, the moment people give up the myth of monogamy, 90% of relationship problems disappear. I’ve never cheated on anyone, never been cheated on. I know this for a fact because I’ve never expected, promised, or demanded monogamy to or from anyone. When friends ask me questions like “I saw her texting someone, what should I do?” or “I think she might still be talking to her ex on Facebook, should I say something?” I literally have NO advice to give them. I just don’t care about that stuff and have never thought it important enough to deal with.

  61. @themaskandrose

    That’s because there’s nothing necessarily wrong with them. The issue I have is that some men act as though these points are only “bad” if a woman does them…but it’s perfectly acceptable for a man to.

    1. The denizens of the manosphere are quick to point out that women with numerous sexual partners before marriage statistically have trouble bonding to their husband…I believe it’s something like 40% who admit to cheating. This is a valid reason to be wary of a fiance who lets her history be known. However, the same studies show that the same goes for men: More partners before marriage = statistically more likely to stray. But this 2nd part is never brought up, nor the idea that a woman should likewise be wary of a husband who was a “player”.

    2. It’s a matter of supply and demand. It has always been such. Men in general want sex exponentially more than women in general. What I find confusing is that some men, in the same breath, will talk about how women with numerous partners are valueless sluts…and then complain about how the women he chases don’t give him casual sex. Does he not realize that he himself is upping her number if she sleeps with him? Is it that a N20 woman is a slut, but when her N21 is him she’s redeemed? It’s just an odd contradiction I’ve noticed.

    3. Paternity fraud is horrible, and should be a punishable crime that involves financial compensation to the cuckolded man. The fact that some countries will not allow DNA testing of a child, or that many laws will force a man to keep paying for a child that isn’t his…even if the cuckold is now divorced from him…is sickening. I’ve no issue with this point.

    4. Complete bs, and I only ever see it when #1 is being spouted. Being in touch with your emotions can be bad as well…what if you’re angry or depressed all the time? I certainly wouldn’t want to have a partner who’s “in touch” with negativity.

    5. There *are* male escorts, boy toys, prostitutes, or “companions” (such as in certain Japanese clubs). They get just as many nice things from their clients as women in the same line of work do. Again, supply and demand. It should be noted that while people can do what they want with their money, I for one disapprove of using sex and companionship as a tool. It should be freely given, not tagged with an exorbitant financial value.

    6. Again, I hear this a lot and I have no problem with it by itself. I think women like this are manipulative and cruel, and I certainly wouldn’t marry them. But when I read blogs that utterly condemn relationships where Female = high N + Male = low N/virgin, and on the same page praise ones where the man has had 20 partners and married a virgin…that’s when I have a problem.

    My issues are not with the points themselves, just the double standards.

    I suppose I should have said that the “upset about bad boys but not nerds” is from talking to my customers and not from online so much. But you have to admit; The manosphere *does* tend to think that somehow only “bad boys” get sex…unless it happens to them. I wonder if it’s such an ingrained response that if a 30 year old incel finally found a nice girl and was seen on a date with her…that another guy wouldn’t automatically consider him a “bad boy” simply from having a lady on his arm? Also, are *you* a “bad boy”, Mask?

    Surprisingly, I agree with you about your last paragraph, other than the “hearing about it” part…it’s actually a pretty big turn on for me to hear about my lovers former partners and what they did. It’s gotten boring recently though, because they weren’t as adventurous as I am. For example, FwB says he never had anal sex before me, that I give the best blowjobs, and that I’m the only one who enjoys watching porn with him…among other things. Frankly, his previous partners (only 3/12 of which were ONS) weren’t sex enthusiasts.

    I’m wondering what, if anything, you think of my “Monogamy and Fidelity” post?

  62. Agreed!
    I don’t get the numbers thing at all. I’ve never met anyone is RL that has given a shit about how many partners their significant others have had. I’ve dated quite a bit and I’ve never had any issue with it and I can’t imagine how anyone can take it seriously. “Oh you’ve been with more than 7 people………..Get out.” I would die laughing! Who can take that conversation between two adults seriously?!
    And where are people coming up with these numbers? 5? Why 5? What happens if a woman is at 5 and that relationship tanks. Does that mean celibacy for the rest of her life? Or does that mean she just has to stick with oral until she dies. Speaking or oral, does it count when your counting your number? Too many bullshit variables and rules, it doesn’t apply to real life.
    The whole thing is ridiculous and childish. Your number of sex partners doesn’t define who you are as a person.
    What we really need is better sex education and STD/pregnancy prevention. If you could practically guarantee that your partner wouldn’t give you a disease or become pregnant would you really give a shit about their number????
    My suggestion since 100% prevention is not guaranteed is to use condoms until your both agree to be monogamous then both partners get tested. If tests come back clean, ditch the condoms and use the pill. If you don’t trust your partner stick with the condoms, female condoms, and dental damns…..but if you don’t trust your partner, why are you with them?

  63. I don’t understand getting upset about numbers either, unless you’re with somebody who’s a complete jerk and constantly talks about having better/more sex than you. But people like that aren’t worth one’s time, honestly. There’s other potential issues too (see my response right before yours) that could cause problems.

    I try to not judge. I’m 30, and have had 1consensual sexual partner in my life…but that doesn’t make me better *or* worse than a man/woman who’s had 40 partners. Nor does it create a status difference between myself or a male/female virgin. Sex is a very personal thing, and while I believe we shouldn’t keep the information about it under wraps, society needs to stop putting a “value” to it.

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