I’ve been having a conversation about relationships with a guy I consider to be an online friend. In a recent email he mentioned that he finds the majority of women unattractive, perhaps due in part to being overly fond of anime and the proportions of women/girls contained therein. Shapely cartoon females aside, I thought this to be an odd way of reacting to such a large segment of one’s own species, especially given that there are so very many body types.
This way of looking at others is also quite different than my own, as I have thusfar in life been capable of finding something attractive about everyone I meet. I have worked with, learned with, been friends with, and simply spoken to people who are not conventionally attractive. But the acne-faced teenager with dermatitis may have beautiful eyes. The 70 year old man, for all his wrinkles, may have a most shapely chin. The obese woman, despite her overabundance of weight, may have incredibly smooth skin. There are a number of body parts, any of which can led beauty to an otherwise plain canvas of humanity. Well-formed hips and kind eyes. Lustrous hair or a nice nose. Full lips, toned arms and muscular legs…even just the way someone’s face lights up when they smile, or how their laugh spreads warmly over a room.
Yes, everyone in the world has something beautiful about them, and I hope that after reading this you will be able to see it in everyone you meet as well, if you don’t already. Perhaps if everyone could appreciate their bodies for the glorious potential they all hold, we as a society would be able to eradicate eating disorders and unnecessary plastic surgery. What do you think, dear readers?
Tarnished Sophia 
Absolutely my dear! 😉
I suppose you were as put off as I was by the recent “Fat Shaming Week” held by a substantial portion of the manosphere. 😦
When I was 21 I dated a 52-year old retired Air Force brigadier general. He was mostly bald, slightly overweight, and was one of the most interesting people I have ever met. We would talk over drinks for hours and then go to his place and have the hottest, dirtiest sex you can imagine.
I also have a whole list of movie and television actors who are “sexy, but not handsome”. The actor who plays Roose Bolton on Game of Thrones is not really attractive, and his character is pretty evil, but he has the most unbelievably seductive speaking voice. My ears prick up every time he comes on the screen.
Hi Sasha.
Yes, I was. While I find morbid obesity unattractive (not to mention very unhealthy), I’m not put off at all by men or women who carry a few extra pounds. I myself am 5’7″ and a size 7, which I’ve been since 10th grade. My FwB is 6’2″ and weighs about 265…he’s not a small guy in any way, shape, or form. 😉 Sounds like both of us are not overly hung up on whether our lovers look conventionally “hot”.
Totally in agreement about Bolton…his voice is like audible silk. (And here I thought that was just my ASMR kicking in!) Another villain that I’m love with is Robert Carlyle, who plays Rumpelstiltskin/Mr. Gold on “Once Upon A Time”. I adore his unique acting style, and how suspenseful he can make a scene with just a few words. He’s also not what one would be normally consider attractive, but I’d sleep with him faster than I’d sleep with any of the other male actors.
I LOVE that Rumperstiltskin actor too! Think it might just be the character he portrays though? It’s more complex than the others. I like that Hook character too though. He’s quite dreamy.
That’s interesting about the General, Sasha. My husband is a Colonel.
Hey Liz.
While I certainly like the way he looks, his character’s background *is* a big part of it. Rumple’s loyalty to his family, love for his wife and child, desire to just be loved for who he is but unable to accept it when it’s offered…all of these make him an interesting and oddly lovable anti-hero.
I personally can’t say the same about Hook, though he is also fairly interesting. A bit too much of a bad-boy for me…he reminds me too much of the cocky jocks I tried to avoid in high school.
Liz, I really dig men in uniform. Married to a colonel…lucky lady! 😀
I have never watched “Once Upon A Time” but I am a crazed GOT fangirl. (I don’t know what ASMR is, sorry.) The so-called hearthrobs on the show (Jon Snow, Robb Stark, Theon Greyjoy, that smirking idiot Daario) do absolutely nothing for me. The actors I find really sexy on GOT are Jason Momoa, Iain Glen (long-standing crush on him from back in his Mountains of the Moon days), Nonso Anozie (Xaro Xoan Doxos, another silky voice…sigh) and of course, of course, Sean Bean. Charles Dance has an amazing commanding presence, and those black leather outfits of his, well… hehehe. Ciarán Hinds and Conleth Hill both have amazing eyes.
And I’m sure you’ve seen this UK commercial for oatmeal starring the Hound? Hubba.
“In a recent email he mentioned that he finds the majority of women unattractive, perhaps due in part to being overly fond of anime and the proportions of women/girls contained therein.”
If it doesn’t give me an erection she is disqualified. Its nothing personal its that she is sexually unattractive.
In the same way women don’t find weak dweebs sexually attractive.
You can honor them as a person but never consider them for a spouse.
Sasha, my favorite men from that series are the Hound and Jason Momoa. The “pretty boys” on the show do nothing for me either. How funny!
Hubba hubba indeed. Thanks for sharing that video. 🙂
Well, *some* women find “weak dweebs” sexually attractive…otherwise I wouldn’t know so many with wives/girlfriends and children. 😉
But sure, not finding someone attractive is fine. In fact, it might even be better if you’re pursuing a friendship with them.
And everybody has their preferences. For example, I don’t like black hair on men, I much prefer blonde/gray/brunette. However, I’m very attracted to Latin and Black women. Figure that one out.
Infowarrior, can you expand on that a little? Are the woman’s looks what “gives you an erection”? So you could look at a photograph of a woman and determine solely from that whether they’d be a suitable life partner?
Maybe it’s a female/male thing, but as I related in my anecdote about the general a few comments above, it is the totality of a person that determines whether I’m sexually interested. A total hunkadoodle could be boring or annoying, and spending more than five minutes in his presence gives me the shits. If I’d looked at the general I’d have said “meh, middle-aged ordinary”, but talking to him and engaging with him on a mental level made him hotter than the hottest male model. My friends who didn’t share my outlook would say “Sasha, good lord, you can do better than that”. (And if I do say so myself I was a bit of a dish at 21 😉 )
Sasha, I think Infowarrior was just talking about pure physical attraction, not the whole kit and caboodle of attraction.
In my personal experience, there are drop-dead gorgeous women who can be utter bitches, and plain janes who can be quality girlfriend/wife material. (Of course, it can go the other way too.) In my view, it’s definitely important to be sexually attracted to one’s mate…but for a lasting relationship one should be attracted to the personality and abilities, as well.
This may be a moot point since I’m not the marrying type, but if I *did* take a husband or wife, I’d want to be attracted to the whole person, not just a part of them.
Tarnished, point taken, but it seemed to me from IW’s statement “You can honor them as a person but never consider them for a spouse”, emphasis on never, that lack of an immediate spark makes them unfit for a LTR. And my point is that the spark can be deceptive and misleading. Is this not what certain writers mean when they refer to “alpha widows”? Women who are mesmerized by a man’s sexual allure/potency/dominance to the detriment of all her future lovers?
At least, I think that’s my point. 🙂
Interesting. I’ve never heard of “alpha widows” before, but your definition *would* certainly make sense here. So are you saying the same could go for men who allow their initial sexual attraction for a woman blind them to another who would be a far superior spouse? Seems fair.
Rollo Tomassi writes about Alpha Widows a lot, and it makes sense to me. Like a lot of writers in this field he is prone to sweeping overgeneralizations, but he really understands this particular phenomenon. Google it and you’ll find a few good things to read, although I personally dislike Sunshine Mary (waaaaaay too Christian conservative for my tastes).
Huh, I’ll have to check it out. I used to comment on there before I started my blog, but couldn’t stand one of the female commenters there. She’d troll every comment I made, and would basically say I was stupid for not wanting to “fulfill my feminine destiny” by getting knocked up. Maybe I should return, but make my comments gender neutral…
SSM is another one who I really dislike too. Not only is she ultra conservative like you said, but when I first commented on her blog she was incredibly haughty and was convinced I was an entirely different person…just because of my fake email name! Eh, we wouldn’t have gotten along anyway, since she’s so by-the-book Christian.
I would have precisely two words to say to someone like that. The second of which is “off”.
I got caught up in two SSM comment threads. One was about a man who asked her, “Is it acceptable to marry a woman who has had sexual relations with men before me, if she is sufficiently repentant and takes Jesus as her savior?” And Mary was all “if you’re suresuresure, and never let her forget her tawdry past because SHE. OWES. YOU for rescuing her from a life of sin.” I’m paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it. I wanted to barf.
The other, I forget what it was about, but one of the sub-discussions in the comments was about whether husbands will “permit” their wives to vote for different election candidates than them. PERMIT! And a depressing number of the female commenters were saying “well I only vote for who my husband tells me to”. These are American, 21st century women. You needn’t be sanguine about feminism (which neither of us are) to be saddened by this.
hahaha! these comments…omg.
I ultimately wonder if it comes down to a judging vs an accepting difference in mentality? I would suspect yes.
Also, girls can get around looks a lot easier than a guy can, if she is hot it doesnt really matter how dumb she is, most guys will do her. But a guy does not have to be ‘hot’ for a lot of girls to want to do him, if he has power, status etc.
Oh, I tried. But as she was a regular and I was a newbie, the other commenters took her side. It’s just how it goes sometimes…nothing to do about it.
The only thread on SSM’s blog that I got caught up in for any significant amount of time was one about Marital Rape. Her stance was that it’s literally physically impossible, since a married man + woman are “one in body and mind”…There’s stories of husbands and wives who kill, maim, bankrupt, and beat one another. But they’d *never* rape each other, oh no.
What utter crap.
“If it doesn’t give me an erection she is disqualified.
Infowarrior, can you expand on that a little? Are the woman’s looks what “gives you an erection”? So you could look at a photograph of a woman and determine solely from that whether they’d be a suitable life partner?”
Sasha, i’ll answer for infowarrior.
I had this conversation with my girlfriend recently. And she agreed with me for what it’s worth.
Without sexual attraction, there can be no love.. intimate love. Without intimate love there can be no relationship beyond friendship.
Women have a myriad of traits and metrics by which to gauge whether a man is sexually attractive to them. Do they have a great job? Are they phsycially fit or good fighters? Do they dress well and project power? Do they hold power? Are they phsyically intimidating and capable of defending the brood? Are they funny? Do they have a sensitive side? Are they good with children? Etc.. etc.. etc…
Men are sexually attracted to one thing. Biological determinations of health, youth and fertility.
All other aspects can be supplemental, but not overriding.
It’s why strippers make so much money in their youth. It’s why the cosmetic industry is a multigazillion dollar industry keeping women looking young. And it’s why porn is recession proof.
There is a funny pic on the internet of how to turn a woman on – a control board with 427 knobs, levers and switches. How to turn a man on – one button.
There are no hurdles to jump for men, just two maximum rules.
1. Don’t be fat
2. Don’t be a bitch
And even fat is circumventable since some men seem to have a niche/fetish towards BBW.. but that is about it in a nutshell.
Men want feminine, pleasant, and sexually pleasing (both visually and romantically) as the main and only metric towards beginning a sexual relationship with a woman. All the education and girl power moxie in the world won’t help me feel any attraction towards Lindy West of Jizzabel fame.
Hope this somewhat helps. If you need more clarification, lemme know.
Ps. I have the ultimate amount of respect for SSM.
And that’s coming from me.. an atheist. Realize.. i announced my atheist views when walking in there, and i will always make my points from a line of logic and reason that usually would go against the religious dogma.
That said, i recognize it is her house and i need to abide by being respectful of her views, even if i do not subscribe to them. Also.. while i may not agree with the religious aspects of how she comes to a conclusion, i will still recognize the conclusion as valid based on traditional values that have their history rooted in a recognition of biology and evolution including the manner in which men and women behave.
We have science now to explain why men and women act the way they do. Religion was the enforcement of trying to keep the social order together way back before we understood the human mind, mating routines, hypergamy, sexual market values and evolved sexual attraction triggers.
All they knew was that women likes dangerous men so they made sure daddy kept a close eye on his daughters and manned the porch with the shotgun.
Today we have girls gone wild and MGTOW. Which society led to the rise of civilization and which is on the precipice of becoming an idiocracy and reverting to tribalism?
So i get that you abhor the way SSM thinks. But i’ll leave you with this thought i espouse as well…
Feminism always says anything a man can do, women can do better. This is a lie on many fronts and is serious jealousy on their parts. One thing women CAN DO.. actually one thing ONLY WOMEN CAN DO is have children. It is what you were built for, what your gender exists for, to conceive and create the next generation. This is your biological purpose whether you accept it or not. Her saying that women not having children are derelict of duty isn’t that far from the truth. A Formula 1 car is built to do one thing. Go fast. That is it’s reason for existence. Of course you could spend the few million dollars it takes to build one and then drive it around your local street doing 40 km/h.. if that is what you are inclined to do with it.. but everyone looking at you driving it would say “There’s someone who’s not using the full potential of what that thing was made to do!”
It’s why i get pissed off at Grandma when she’s driving a 450hp Mercedes Benz in the fast lane doing 5 km/h under the limit. Talk about a waste of car’s potential.
/end of rant
@M3
“There are no hurdles to jump for men, just two maximum rules.
1. Don’t be fat
2. Don’t be a bitch”
Yeah, my two rules for finding someone truly attractive are;
1. Be a nice person.
2. Be clean/have good hygiene/take care of yourself.
Other than that, I can find something attractive about anybody if these 2 criteria are met in full. If you’re a bad-boy jerk with acne and horrible breath…or a overbearing bitch with unkempt hair and dirty fingernails…yeah, you’ll do absolutely nothing for me.
“Which society led to the rise of civilization…”
Well, certainly not Christianity. That religion came about FAR after civilization was created. I’m more of the opinion that a moral code and law is required for a working society, but religion is not.
Yes, I do abhor the way she thinks, and acts. I don’t mind saying that she is one of 3 bloggers I would not allow to comment on here. I’ve met 12 year olds who are kinder to people with dissenting beliefs, and who don’t jump to ignorant conclusions about those they have never met. Would I give her my seat on a crowded bus, or help her fix a flat tire? Yes. Would I let her into my house? Hell no. But that’s neither here nor there, since I doubt she’d ever try to find my blog or comment on it.
M3, you know I’m not a Feminist, and that I don’t believe women are better than men. However, I do believe they are equal in most abilities (and could be physically closer if more women would just work out!). But in the same way that men are not *just* their semen, so too are women not *just* their eggs. Yes, when you get down to pure biological function men are made to inseminate, women are made to carry. Yet we are so much more than just our genital operations, wouldn’t you agree?
@tarnished sophia
“I’m more of the opinion that a moral code and law is required for a working society”
What better way to ensure that the moral code is obeyed by inventing gods or spirits that will kick your ass in the afterlife or in this life for breaking it.
“However, I do believe they are equal in most abilities (and could be physically closer if more women would just work out!)”
Men are women are more different than you believe.
Correction: Men and women
Lol, I guess you have a point there!
Or…are they more similar than you think? 😀
I think I’m starting to understand, M3. Thanks for the explanation. I think it really is a male/female thing. And that’s okay. 🙂
Respectfully disagree with you though, about feminism being motivated by jealousy. Feminists actually believe their own equality crap.
GAAAH, Talk about a cock-blocker! LOL.
Even then, though, I as a female would say she’s sexually unattractive because she’s an arrogant self-deluded shrieking leftist feminist.Being fat just seals the deal.
Picture a woman who says and writes everything Lindy does, but she looks like January Jones (insert name of your favorite fuckable celebrity here).
Would you still be unattracted?
@Tarnished
Somehow your emoticon lights up my day.
Could you post the thread where you clashed with SSM?
I would like to see. Cos if she is engaged in unbecoming behaviour of a lady. As far as my record on SSM. She does accept correction for her crabby behaviour. She is usually slapped back into line by the male commentators there.
I aim to please.
And on the other side of the coin:
Picture a man whose online avatar photo features a naked chiseled upper body, sunglasses, goatee, skull bandanna, and don’t-give-a-shit sneer.
Would I do him? Maybe. Possibly. 😛
Would I marry him? Impossible to say.
I will not, because it was a long time ago, and when I used a different username that I’m done with now.
I *will* state that yes, at least 4 of the male commenters told her she was probably wrong and that they’d be willing to hear more of what I had to say. Unfortunately, my internet connection was extremely slow, and I posted that I was finished attempting to talk nicely to SSM before I read their replies.
Whatever. It is over and done with, I believe I’m happier not visiting her blog due to how much we disagree on and how she acts. Her blog is her blog, my blog is mine…I’m fine with them not mixing. 🙂
Damn. The commentator’s over there can learn so much of your wisdom and now because of that incident. They miss out. I guess I will have to be the middleman.
My wisdom is not any better than anyone else’s. I’m just odd in that I believe in fighting for men’s rights/equality alongside women’s rights/equality.
Oh, and I was kidding with you a bit before. I’m well aware that there are numerous differences between men and women from biological/psychological perspectives. I just get tired of feminists and mras talking about said differences like men and women are completely separate species.
It’s as though they are trying to convince everyone that men are dogs, and women are cats…when really it’s more like men are Labradors and women are Golden Retrievers.
Yeah it is perhaps an overreaction to the egalitarian madness of leftism. Of which feminism is a part.
Egalitarian madness? Yes!
Because trying to ensure that all people regardless of sex, creed, age, skin tone, etc have the same basic rights is crazy! Lol 😛
As an agent of the evil patriarchy I agree.
No idea what SSM is.
Oh noes! Not teh patriarchy! Lol, I’m glad you’re here anyway, Infowarrior. 🙂
@Liz
Sunshine mary. A blogger with very conservative/traditional/uber-Christian values.
@ Tarnished
“That religion came about FAR after civilization was created.”
Yes, but religion gave civilization it’s first set of codified rules for governing morality and allowed for society to prosper by instituting shaming/social norms/marriage/etc.. to keep people in line but also to make sure every man was pretty much guaranteed a woman (1 to 1) thus giving them reason and purpose to work hard and prosper for their woman’s (and thus society at large) benefit.
Today you see society regressing. I will tackle that in a future post you may not like but hey.. i know we can always have rational debates after i’ve seasoned my posts with liberal amounts of hyperbole 😛
“Yes, I do abhor the way she thinks, and acts.”
Have you ever watched “The Four Horseman”? Youtube it.. Dawkins/Hitches/Harris/Dennett. It’s an awesome thing to watch. One of the best lines Hitchens and Dennett make is that you cannot have an argument with religious people without offending them or hurting or putting them on the defensive. To question their way of thinking based on Godly dictates is insufferable. You are questioning their faith. This is something i’ve come to accept and work around it skillfully. You are a naif and overly emotional. You and SSM would be proverbial rams butting heads.
As i said, there is much that she says that echoes my thoughts on the matter. For society to function and thrive, the tenets of feminism that have widely been adopted at the same time redacting and curtailing the old way of doing things has wrought (or will reap very soon) an unmitigated disaster for the West. It’s not a matter of if but when. Whether it’s her preaching about the evils of feminism because people left God, or me telling people about the evils of feminism and backing it up with stats, empirical evidence and constantly reminding you that you dear sweet Tarnished are such an outlier to regular women (my GF is a polar opposite of you and is in agreement that women never earned the right to vote, and vote over stupid trivial things / going out and getting jobs depressed wages / creating a need for 2 income families / reduced ability for men to provide and women to be stay at home moms / etc..), that you cannot assume that more than a minority of women feel/act as you do. You are the glorious exception, not the rule. If i ever get around to that tomboy article, it will become self evident.
“Yes, when you get down to pure biological function men are made to inseminate, women are made to carry. Yet we are so much more than just our genital operations, wouldn’t you agree?”
Of course we are and im glad you didn’t misconstrue or insinuate i suggested that as a matter of course. Yes, from the bio/evolved standpoint those are our purposes and functions. And yet, we have evolved to a level where death does not stalk us at 20, no impending cataclysms keep us from the brink of extinction, and we have so much time now to explore, learn, discover and freely enjoy becoming people our ancestors never had the luxury or privilege of becoming due to premature responsibilities forced upon them. No one is forced to become anything before a time and place of their own choosing.
We are all free to deviate, but if enough of society did so, that society ceases to exist. The freer a society becomes, the greater it’s odds of facing elimination. Much has been written about the smarter/freer people having fewer children. Birth rates plummet all over the West. We are enlightened and we have choice. But we are also on the way out if mating doesn’t come back into season. And those that are mating will simply impose their way onto us. It’s the double edged sword of selfish choice.
For the record, i would NEVER shove or push my loved ones daughters out at 18 and say ‘Go get married and knocked up NOW”. But i will certainly enlighten them to all the evidence (and redpill truths) that women on a whole are overwhelmingly unhappy today, that careers and working for money are not equivalent to having a family nor bring the same amount of satisfaction, that having it all is a myth, that fertility is real, that men prefer youth, that they will compete with younger women for mates if they waste their 20’s fucking around, and on and on and on. If having a family is something they really want, i would have them know what to look for in a guy and personally screen them myslef for cad/player tendencies. I would metaphorically retake the role of the man with the shotgun on the porch to make sure she is armed with the best knowledge to make the best choice and ultimately accept the consequences of all her actions should she later have regret.
“M3, you know I’m not a Feminist, and that I don’t believe women are better than men. However, I do believe they are equal in most abilities (and could be physically closer if more women would just work out!). ”
I don’t believe they are equal in most abilities. Our species evolved to give certain traits to a majority of one gender and the other. While there are exceptions.. the generalizations stand. This is not to invalidate one or the other sex by measure of superiority. We are different yet equal in terms of what those skills mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
Even if all women worked out, a majority will not reach anything near what most men can if they work out in equal amount. Strength and size are traits given to males because we evolved to do the hunting/gathering/protecting. Only now, in an age of fast food and high fructose corn syrup and sedentiary lifestyle in a processed food culture can we see men who would be as incapable as the women of decades ago in providing and provisioning.
Further, you make the claim that women would be equal if only they just worked out. I do not have enough fingers on my hand to count women i personally know that not only do not want to work out to have pipes like men, they are neither inclined nor willing to perform man tasks like soldiering or construction or any heavy labour. And they would probably take offence to your statement and tell you to pipe down before you ruin the good thing that is ‘benevolent sexism’ for them.
Realize as always, i’m not saying MEN > WOMEN. I am saying we are different, in what we bring to the table, and each sex is superior at the innate skills they have, which have evolved over time. Men – strength. Women – intuition. Men – logic and reasoning. Women – reading emotions/non verbal cues. Men – exploring/taking risks/confronting danger. Women – nurturing/rallying support… and on and on.
While there are exceptions, the generalizations we use in the sphere are accurate enough because they fall within the majority spectrum of observable human interaction.
Hope that clears up my stance! Cheers.
@ Sasha
“Feminists actually believe their own equality crap.”
I’m still on the fence about that one. I firmly believe feminists are so jealous of perceived male power (patriarchy) that they view traditional feminine characteristics with such disdain and derision, treating being female as a sign of weakness. The simple act of making someone you love a meal turns into ‘make your own god damn sandwich’.. they treat femininity like cancer to be nuked. I firmly believe they so want to wipe out femininity and act like men because of such jealousy.. that they are the biggest misogynists on the planet. They hate women who behave like women.
“GAAAH, Talk about a cock-blocker! LOL.
Even then, though, I as a female would say she’s sexually unattractive because she’s an arrogant self-deluded shrieking leftist feminist.Being fat just seals the deal.”
She’s sexually unattractive because she’s a beluga that adapted to dry land. Her attitude is just icing on the cake she just inhaled.
“Picture a woman who says and writes everything Lindy does, but she looks like January Jones (insert name of your favorite fuckable celebrity here).
Would you still be unattracted?”
Yes, i would be unattracted. I’ll use Megan Fox as an example. I knew nothing of her before Transformers. She looked hot in the trailer. Instant boner. Her attitude (coupled with permanent angry face) put her in the unfuck catagory. Does she still have a kickass body? Hell yes. But i could not suffer her to stick it in her. The sex would be tepid an uninspired and totally leave me unfulfilled. A girl must have A – look attractive enough to want to fuck to begin the proceeding. Not speaking for all men here, but if after 5 minutes of talking and she’s a total airhead with a bitchy entitled attitude i come to realize B is shit, i lose sexual attraction in her. Her attitude closes the door that her body opened.
I’m sure most men would still bang her even if she was a bitch to them.
Some guys reward dogs that bite them. I have better standards than most it seems.
Add belief in feminist ideology into the mix.. a woman could be a perfect 10 – the second she opens her mouth and says ‘PATRIARCHY’.. i don’t just go limp, it retracts itself into my body like im having a pool party with Santa and his merry band of elven wage slaves at the North Pole.
“Picture a man whose online avatar photo features a naked chiseled upper body, sunglasses, goatee, skull bandanna, and don’t-give-a-shit sneer.”
Hmmmm… i do declare.. this chap you describe sounds oddly familiar…
“Would I do him? Maybe. Possibly. :P”
My ears.. they have perked.
You wouldn’t be 1 of 10 would you? (poll)
http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/gauntlet-cast-you-throw-down-now-back-your-shit-up/
“Would I marry him? Impossible to say.”
I’ll make that easy on you and take that option out of your hands dear… as marriage is a one and done never to be repeated for moi. I felt the fire.. and i did not like. A marriage is a finish line. I like treating every day as never taking the relationship for granted. Can’t do that with a marriage contract. 🙂
I’ll grant that early religion helped with the creation of rules and morality, if only for the reasons that Infowarrior stated above.
M3, I adore your hyperbole. 🙂
I have not watched “The Four Horsemen”, but I definitely will when I have time. Sounds cool.
I like to think I’m less naive/innocent and more perplexed by the way others act. It also amuses me that you think I’m overly emotional, when in real life people sometimes refer to me as “Spock”. Perhaps it’s my writing style, or because I’m overly honest and it comes off as “emotional”? Hmm, something new for me to work on…
If I’m an outlier, it is most likely because I don’t consider myself to be a woman (at least mentally). I don’t believe myself to be glorious in anything, really. I’m just me, with all my personal oddities and misunderstandings of why people say things they don’t believe or mean. I love “people watching” at the mall…but it’s incredibly confusing!
This last part about educating young women (and presumably also young men) about the numerous choices available and help them to truly know what they want from life is excellent. Being able to accept that for every action there is a reaction is something so few younglings seem to have nowadays. This should be remedied so everyone can make a good life choice before they get too old.
While there is sexual dimorphism in nearly every species with a spine, it seems that humans are somewhat less. Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses (physically and psychologically), yes. But we as a society must help people to get around those lest we create an artificially larger gap than what truly exists.
True, a male bodybuilder who works out 40 hrs a week will be stronger than a female bodybuilder who works out the same amount (with some rare exceptions). But at least if more women worked out, they’d be able to do more…like be able to carry 40-65 lbs instead of just 20. Can’t tell you how many times my younger brother and I would have to bring in the heavy groceries or gardening supplies simply because my mother and sisters couldn’t life a bag of canned veggies or a box of concrete mix. Sad…
Hey, if other people want to believe that benevolent sexism is a good thing, that’s their prerogative. I won’t suggest that they grow some muscles or learn to be handy ’round the house if they don’t suggest I quit my job and get married. Everyone’s an individual adult here.
Your stance is clear as always, dear M3. 😉
M3 I never voted in that poll. Ha.
YES YES YES that is precisely what I’m talking about.
You know how in the wayback days, rich folks and royalty who were arranging marriages for their kids would send each other portraits of the child in question? You could be totally enraptured by someone’s looks but then find out (once you’re married) that they are crappy in the personality department. But someone whose portrait was ugly would be rejected outright.
I am in fact quite happily married and childless by choice (unless you count our two idiot cats). I just have a rather extravagant fantasy life. 😉
Does the guy use a lot of porn?
^Tarnish…why is blatantly hateful/feminist posts like this being approved?
Sorry, EK. As far as I know, Sista is not a feminist. It didn’t seem all that hateful to me…I visit her blog quite a bit and understand her sense of humor. She’s often tongue-in-cheek.
But if we want to talk about “hateful” posts, then why did you not say anything about that genmaxmra guy (or whatever his name is) when he called me a Wiccan bitch fascist etc,etc,etc on your blog? As I recall, you actually just “laughed” at the terms he used to describe me. I find Sistas comment far less offensive than anything that guy ever says.
I agree that everyone has something beautiful to them. I would even say that everyone has some great redeeming qualities to them.
I do not know if I can say the same for attraction which is more of, for me at least, a physical thing. There are some things I prefer and I cannot substantiate why. There is no rhyme or reason to it. I can identify specific features on women which are nice, but nice features do not necessarily evoke a responce in me that can be considered attraction.
To find the majority of women unattractive is kinda odd though I must say
The problem I have, (and never stopped you from) was offering a rebuttal. I responded to her and it is still pending, like 2-3 others, whereas people beneath me’s posts were approved.
I don’t find her shit offensive in that I cant shake it off, but to allow her ‘side’ posted and not allow a defense is something I never hindered you with.
Ok, fair enough. But wording of your rebuttal goes against my comments policy. I’ll alter her comment so that it only includes the first part though, if that would make you feel better.
Either that, or we can talk privately and I’ll help you with a rebuttal that is less…harsh. Whatever you prefer.
@tarnished
You are probably more stoic and many women so that is perhaps why you are referred to as “Spock”
The reason religious debates get so emotional. Is that it involves threatening the very core of their identity. It is preferable to leave them a way out so as to give them breathing space so that they soak in the information rather than turn defensive.
Totally destroying them in debate is not the way to convince most people.
I really see no way her comment ‘should not breed’ is not ‘ban worthy’ (or a later comment about being a constant porn user) yet my comment is somehow deserving of not being published.
It is not about a rebuttal at this point, I am pretty appalled actually that you displayed such a blatant preference at censorship.
I’m sorry, EK. Had I known that this was such a sensitive topic, I’d not have written this post.
Again, I know Sista through her blog…I don’t believe she meant her comment to be taken as anything other than humor, especially given her emoticon after the sentence. As for Emma’s, I think it’s just an honest question (though obviously one I have no way of answering).
I’m not trying to “display blatant preference at censorship”, and I’m sorry you take it that way. My comments policy disallows personal attacks at other commenters, which neither Emma nor Sista did. Sista may have wrote a joke in poor taste, but she certainly did not direct it towards you since she doesn’t know you AND you hadn’t commented yet. Now, had *you* commented first and she said “EK, you shouldn’t breed and you are a horrible excuse for a man” or something equally atrocious and mean…yes, I would have never allowed her words through.
And again, I think Emma is just putting forth a question, not passing any form of judgment. After all, don’t *most* people watch porn? I do on a weekly basis…there’s no shame in that.
I’m perfectly fine with you asking for an apology (or I could ask instead, if you wish). I really don’t want you to feel like I’m discounting your feelings on this matter, and I’ll gladly talk to you further about this or talk to Sista about how her comment could be taken badly. Please let me know what you’d like to do.
P.S. – I too have been told by various commenters on MRA blogs/videos that they hope I’m infertile or that I get ovarian cancer, just because I said I prefer the idea of equal relationships. To me, this isn’t a big deal, but I can understand that similar comments may be more hurtful to others.
@infowarrior
In a way, yes, I am more stoic. I laugh easily, and enjoy making others laugh, but I don’t do anger and have a lot of trouble expressing frustration and sadness.
@infowarrior
You bring up a good point, one that I’ve yet to truly understand. Why would one’s religious belief be the “core” of one’s identity? Even when I was a youngster in Catholic school, going to church every single day and honestly believing in the Christian idea of god…I never thought of my religion as being my “core”.
Heck, even *now* when I’m arguably the most secure in my religion I *still* only consider it a small part of me. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
I agree wholeheartedly with your last assertion. When people are on the defensive they’re not open to new ideas or productive discussion.
I’m not against porn. I think people should watch it if they want, but they have to know it’s not totally harmless. It can lead to, among other things, increased boner threshold. Men often report being attracted to more women once they quit porn. So yes, my question about porn was a valid one.
It’s funny lots of MRA/PUA guys hate when someone mentions this thing about porn, think it sounds feminist, but have no problem chastizing women for having sex with bad boys and therefore increasing their “boner threshold”. After all, how can she enjoy average guys now, after she had a taste of excitement alphas give?
I think we should admit porn/romantic novels/real life excitement can spoil us. Especially when consumed in unreasonable quantities.
Btw, I know EK probably isn’t refering to me, but since the topic came up, I decided to add more thoughts about porn. Hope it’s ok 🙂
@Tarnished
If the gospels are reliable and the accounts trustworthy, if Christ rose from the dead. Then the believer must give all of himself(Luke 14:25-33) and give absolute allegiance and loyalty to god even to the jaws of death(Matthew 16:25).
He is to present himself as a living sacrifice(Romans 12:1-2). He is to be holy as god is holy(1 Peter 1:16). In every thing he does he does to the lord(1 Corinthians 10:31)
So there you go. From the primary sources themselves if you are willing to check them out. The gospel is either good news or a terrible lie. If true then of course one is to render oneself right before a holy god through Jesus and be saved from the coming wrath. If false then his followers are to be pitied for toiling for a lost cause where they may potentially lose everything.
@Emma
Of course, that’s fine. I was actually going to make the same point you did aka porn can, in some people or when used exclusively, make one disenchanted with real life lovers. This can go for men AND women. After all, the average woman doesn’t have the body of a porn star (whose very job is to look sexy) and the average man doesn’t have a 8 inch long penis.
I think that professional porn is good in smaller doses than say, amateur porn where the actors and actresses look more realistic. And it’s important to fully realize that porn IS a choreographed production, not just people who are filmed during sex.
I don’t think I have a Bible anymore, but I do recall some of the passages you refer to. Even if this book is false, and it turns out that Wiccans…or Muslims…or Hindus…or any other faith is correct, I don’t think that Christians are to be “pitied”. True, I wish people did good works and lived because they *wanted* to, not because they were told they *had* to…but helping others is still helping others, and I believe any benevolent god/gods would be happy if their “children” did that.
@EK
I have altered Sista’s comment. I hope this is satisfactory to you, and that you didn’t suffer any real emotional harm from it. If you want to talk about this more, my door is always open.
I have a number of thoughts: 1. so sad that so much in our culture turns real men off of real women. I wonder how he would like it if it were the reverse with real women turned off of real men because of the way we portray them? A symptom of a sick society. 3. I agree that we can find beauty in everyone and believe that that is the best way to see everyone around us. Sometimes the beauty is physical, sometimes it is deeper– Something about their character.
TS, a beautiful sentiment behind this post. Well done. M3’s comment here really grabbed my attention:
“I firmly believe they so want to wipe out femininity and act like men because of such jealousy.. that they are the biggest misogynists on the planet.”
I’m actually arguing that this is true in my book, only it’s envy instead of jealously. Unconscious feminist misogyny leads to apparent conscious misandry.
Thanks for the post.
Hi there, Navigator. Thanks for stopping by.
I can see this in some feminists, but in others I still see a fight for equality in the workforce or against harmful double standards. Is this what you mean on your site when you talk about “ideological feminists” vs “equality feminists”?
Yes. Radical = ideological = gender = gynocentric feminists. Equality feminists want equality of opportunity and accept that women’s choices can happily include a traditiona family role if that is what is desired.
Christina Hoff Sommer’s, Ph.D., book “Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women” is a great introduction into this topic.
A pleasure to visit.
Really good post Sophia! Haha, I too watch a lot of anime and love my anime girls (oh sweet Kaname Chidori…), but I don’t think it effects my ability to enjoy real beauty in the men and women of the world.
I’m attracted to probably 60% of women I see. Of course we all have our ideals and preferences but once you really look it’s not hard to find something attractive in most people.
I agree with your point! 🙂
Rohan.
@Tarnished
“Even if this book is false, and it turns out that Wiccans…or Muslims…or Hindus…or any other faith is correct”
Better to base your faith on solid truth rather than pretty lies. Historical accuracy, consistency with science, fulfilled prophecy reliability of the document are all important to my faith at least. Otherwise I’d rather will go back to being an Atheist.
I would agree, except that I believe ALL religions have irrational foundations, including my own. This does not make them bad, just matters of faith.
I’ve been learning a lot about Atheism and its arguments lately. Do you mind if I ask why you are no longer an Atheist?
@Rohan
Thank you very much, and also thank you for stopping by!
@BroadBlogs
Sorry, but I had to alter your comment as I had to do to Sista’s. Otherwise it would have been hurtful towards one of your fellow commenters, which I don’t allow due to my comments policy.
I appreciate your 3rd point, and agree with it. Everyone has something about them that another person would find attractive. As for your 1st point, this online friend is a MGTOW so I think he would argue that many women already do this (though perhaps with regards to resources rather than looks).
“1. so sad that so much in our culture turns real men off of real women. I wonder how he would like it if it were the reverse with real women turned off of real men because of the way we portray them? A symptom of a sick society.”
I Wonder if broadblogs has heard of the 80/20 rule, Pareto principle, and read the corresponding evidence that suggests a majority of women find the majority of men unattractive?
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/online-dating-tips-advice/youre-probably-passing-up-your-soulmate-and-dont-know-it/
It would appear Real Women do find Real Men unattractive, and this is just based on looks. Drill down further when you realize that for women attraction is multifaceted and hinge on other factors like power/status/dominance/and ability to make a girl laugh… Even a good chunk of the top 20% of men they find attractive on looks will cease to be attractive based on Beta/omega/gamma behaviors.
MGTOW is a natural REACTION to a majority of one gender excluding the other from the mating dance that assortive mating once kept in check.
I’d hope Broadblogs examines the links and re- examines her perception of the current state of the SMP.
This turned out to be an excellent post garnering tons of discussion! Well done TS 🙂
@M3
Thanks man. The only part I’m upset about is what happened with EK and Sista’s comment (which I’ve since edited). Other than that, I’m very pleased!
I was a seeker of truth. And I tried out christianity for irrational reasons. However my irrationality cannot hold up so I went digging around seeking evidence if there is any. And ended up finding it hence I truly and fully converted after that.
I will give the idea of the books I read
http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Christ-Journalists-Investigation/dp/0310209307
And the articles I read:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-evidence-for-jesus
However I may be wrong. So as far as I know the case for Jesus is convincing.
Back to the original topic. I believe there is good biological reasons why we find certain faces physically attractive:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002106
Beauty is more than skin deep.