An email recently came to me that I thought deserved it’s own post as an answer. From a lurker, it states;
“Since you still look like a woman, does this mean you are privy to their private conversations? Are you still invited to ‘women-only’ events such as bachelorette parties, girls-night, baby showers, bridal parties, etc? If so, what do you hear while at these get togethers and how does it affect you being what you say you are?”
As this is a longish question, I’m going to break it into parts. Feel free to comment or ask for clarification as needed, especially since this is a big topic.
Since you still look like a woman, does this mean you are privy to their private conversations?
Yes, though there’s been many a time I wish I wasn’t. I can honestly say that when women are “alone” aka without any men in earshot, they act entirely different, or at least talk about things that I’d personally consider to be very private matters.
Some of the topics include;
-going into great (borderline graphic) detail about their menstrual cycle**
-talking about their partner’s genital size and looks
-rating/comparing the sexual prowess of each other’s husbands or boyfriends
-pregnancy with all it’s physical/hormonal tribulations**
-their jobs and how tough they are or how they are disappointed that Coworker X hasn’t asked them out yet
-complaints about college life and the corresponding dating field
-child rearing tips
-commitment levels of various men they know/are dating
-numerous talks about fashion/shoes/clothing and hairstyles
-going over the latest flaw of women they interact with but don’t like
-what’s happening in the latest tv shows or sitcoms
-comparing how long it’s been since they had sex, and giving each other tips on how long to make their men wait
-New Age or pseudoscientific topics
I’d like to say that the all women groups that I’ve attended have also gone into further topics like philosophy, politics, finances, plans for the future of their marriage/single life, real relationship advice, religious differences, educational accomplishments, what goes on at the workplace, or current projects and hobbies they’re working on. But other than times that all-women college rallies were going on and such topics were the primary reason for meeting, I’ve never been to such a gathering. (Not saying they don’t happen, just that in my life thusfar they have not.)
Are you still invited to ‘women-only’ events such as bachelorette parties, girls-night, baby showers, bridal parties, etc?
Yes again, though for the most part I find them tedious even if I do try to stay involved with the group (and I was no longer forced to attend them once I moved out at 17). Smiling and nodding has gotten me quite far during the ones I go to in order to make my mother happy. These events are not boring per se but as they feature milestones that I have no intention of ever doing myself (or even approve of, in some instances) they kind of drag on after the first hour. It’s also interesting to note that while I’m fully expected to come to these family/family friend events, not once has any of these women offered to or accepted my invitations to go to an event that I enjoy. In fact, I’m typically met with confused looks and protests of “but why would I go to a reptile expo? I don’t like lizards”, “a videogame store? yeah, right!” or “a gaming convention? sounds like a snore-fest. I’ll pass”. Remind me again why I should devote time, travel expenses, and gifts to people who never return the favor? Seems very one sided, but I guess that’s just the way things work nowadays.
If so, what do you hear while at these get togethers and how does it affect you being what you say you are?
I’ve already mentioned most of the topics above, so I won’t reiterate them here. However, I will say this: The amount of jokes, sarcasm, and snide commentary that is directed toward men (individual or global) at the majority of these gatherings is cringe worthy. Many a time have there been remarks thrown around stating how inept various husbands/boyfriends are, how all men are incapable of proper cooking, childcare, cleaning, or shopping for the home, and how men don’t have the capacity for true friendship or love.
Now, these comments are always made in a joking manner, but to me this hardly makes them acceptable for conversation. Some examples;
“Oh, yeah…Ed has been getting on my case again for more sex. We already have it twice a month, I don’t know what he expects me to do, I’m not a porn star.”
“Can you believe Carl broke up with Sara 3 weeks before prom? And just because she had a drunk kiss with a random guy! It’s not like she meant anything by it…Men just don’t understand how to forgive and forget.”
“You know Walter, he’s just as scatterbrained as any other man. Can’t remember to pick up his socks, much less to put the clothes in the dryer. If it wasn’t for me, that man would wear filthy clothes every day of the week.”
“So I caught this guy glancing at my ass in the mall yesterday. Yeah, he didn’t all-out stare or say anything, but still…Ugh, why the hell are boys such pigs?”
“I got my hair cut and dyed a week ago, and the guy in the next cubicle over *still* hasn’t said anything about it. I don’t know what to do to grab his attention! It’s like I’m f-ing invisible.”
“So I went to my psychic a few days ago, and she said my boyfriend was holding me back from finding my true destiny. I really like him, but if that’s how things are I may have to let him go after our vacation…”
(In regards to a waiter bringing us the incorrect orders) “My God, men can’t be trusted with getting anything right the first time, can they?”
Given that I don’t think of myself as a woman, it makes me extremely uncomfortable and sometimes quite angry to hear such talk. A lot of the conversations are far more crude than the examples above, and being a part of them…even as a mere listener…has me wanting to jump up and let everyone know I’m an involuntary “spy” in their midst, that I don’t agree with most of what they say, and that I find much of it hypocritical. When I was younger I simply stayed quiet or walked away to get a drink. As I grew older, I’ve attempted to point out that NAMALT (not all men are like that) or that there are numerous things that even I know Husband X or Boyfriend Y does for the woman in question that should make up for the issue she has with him. If the conversation gets too much along the lines of unnecessary male-bashing, I’ll sometimes try to push it back on a less misandric course…but usually get talked over or accused of not caring enough about other women’s problems to just listen/support them.
Okay, I get that relationships are never perfect and that letting off some steam is beneficial to both partners, but to do it in such a crass manner and so often just seems over the top. Seriously, talking about their “men issues” goes on for over half of the get-together, and imo puts a damper on the entire event. My friends *never* speak about the women in their lives this way, even if they recently had a fight…I’ve always been disheartened to know that the feminine side does not return the favor to their men. (Or again, not in my experiences with women.)
This post got slightly ranty, but I stand by every word and can assure my readers that I did not exaggerate any of my points or alter any comments other than to make them more concise. If any followers out there want to let me know that their group of female friends aren’t like this at all…please go ahead, as I’d be happy to know. This is one of those instances where I’m happier to be the exception than the rule, and would love to be told that the female relatives/family friends I know just all happen to be narcissistic, or that there are women out there who take pains to not spend the majority of their time together talking about men or stereotypical woman topics. Comments, please! I know that not all cis women are like this, I simply haven’t met all that many.
**Yes, I do think that women should be able to discuss menstruation, pregnancy, and childbirth with others. These things don’t affect me, but I understand that there are various tips and tricks that can make these aspects of women’s lives easier to deal with. However, there’s a big difference between having such a conversation during a road trip/at home/at a retreat VS at a restaurant/in a fancy hall/in a mall’s food court. There’s a time and place for everything, in other words.
Dear radfems who are visiting from Reddit:
I’ve seen the comments on your sub, and among other things (making fun of my About Me page?) was surprised to find you believe that I’m of the opinion that gender dysphoria is caused by having interests that are stereotypically related to the opposite sex. This is most assuredly not the case, which I’ve already discussed here:
Some commenters have stated that I should “find new friends”…none of the women or girls I paraphrased were friends of mine. They were either coworkers, friends of my family, classmates, or extended relatives. Also, my friends, who are currently and for a number of years have all been men, do, in fact, talk to me about various aspects of their lives. This includes everything from their kids’ sports games to physical changes as they age to relationship highs and lows. To say that my body type is that much of an issue as to prevent honest/open conversation truly doesn’t give them enough credit as human beings.
I understand that we have different ideologies as I’m an egalitarian and you are radical gender critical feminists…but I’d still appreciate it if you didn’t put words in my mouth or make assumptions based on a single blog post. I don’t expect a true response (though I’ll certainly allow one through if it isn’t sexist or an ad hominin attack), but hopefully you’ll find that I am not against women of any kind so long as they act like adults.