Hey all. This started out as a reply comment to another commenter on a blog I read, http://theunfortunatevirginmale.wordpress.com/. It became quite a bit longer than I initially expected, and has some good talking points in it, so I figured I’d just turn it into a post.
His original comment is in bold, my response to each part is in regular text. Although I have broken up his comment into smaller pieces to make replying easier, I have not changed a single word or taken anything out, including the link to his statistic at the bottom. As this comment was not directed toward myself, but to Unfortunate Virgin, I’ve also left the quotations. Hope this doesn’t make it too difficult to read…I can clarify further if it’s needed.
Oh, and just so readers aren’t thinking I’m coming down too harshly on the original commenter: I realize that he wrote this and has these beliefs due to social expectations, the media in general, and from conversations he’s had in the past. I’m not angry or fed up with him as an individual. I’m pissed at the way society treats virgins, particularly male ones, and the fact that he has reached these conclusions without anyone stepping up to say “No, that’s not how it has to be”. That’s what is sticking in my craw, not the guy himself. So with that cleared up, let’s go…
I’m fairly confident that if the girls you were dating knew at the outset that you were a virgin… they absolutely wouldn’t be dating you in the first place, no matter how attractive you were….Unless you’ve made that clear in your profile?
-Well, then he should try looking for women as sexual partners, not immature girls who still cling to the idea that sexual experience is somehow related to being a better person.
While I’m also a virgin, my perspective is that when the time comes (and the rate you’re going, it will soon), and the physical intensity between you makes it clear that sex will happen…she *will* freak out when she knows.
-I can only speak for myself, but I would only freak out if my partner didn’t tell me ahead of time that he was a virgin. I’m one of those people who believe that you never forget your first time, and I’d be very disappointed (not to mention incredibly hurt) to have not been given the chance to make their first a memorable one. I’m not talking rose petals on the bed and a candlelit room with a bottle of Dom Perignon chilling on the nightstand…I’m not a romantically inclined sort. My own virginity was shared in the back of a car, and I was still very pleased by the entire encounter. But knowing he is a virgin I can go slower and make sure he is well pleasured during our time together. Your first time is never going to be your best time, but it can be a good one.
Once she’s decided that she wants to have sex with you, she’ll rationalize away the fact that she would never have given you the time of day if she knew you were a virgin to begin with; she’ll probably eventually say something silly like “Aw, that’s cute.”
-Sex should never be rationalized away…it’s either something you want or it’s not. Being a virgin is not a “cute” state of being, it’s just how things are, and I would personally be quite insulted by someone trying to say my lack of experience is somehow akin to a basket of kittens. If you are with someone who makes a big deal about the fact you’ve never done something before (driven a car, rode a bike, had sex, learned to swim, eaten sushi, etc) then they’re *probably* not the one to share that experience with. For one thing, they would probably not be a good teacher…
The problem is that that changes the sexual dynamic; she can’t help but pity you and feel like she’s “helping” you. That’s nice, but she will NEVER respect you the way she would respect a non-virgin; you’ll always be a little puppy who she saved.
-Again, wtf is with this idea that virgins are child-like (or in this case, puppy-like)? For Gods’ sake, it’s a single aspect of human interaction that they haven’t done. I don’t respect people who know how to hanglide any more than people who don’t know how to hanglide…why the heck should it be different for sex? Nobody needs to be “saved” from their virginity, they just need to find someone who is nice enough to share it with and they are at least a little attracted to. This concept of “sex = adulthood” needs to end. Now.
Not a big deal if you’re just looking to lose your virginity (and not a fulfilling long-term relationship), but I’m just offering some perspective for whatever it’s worth.
-I will admit up front I don’t understand this viewpoint. Regardless of whether it’s a one-night stand, a FwB situation, or a long term relationship, I’d want my partner to have some respect for me as a person. It’s entirely possible I’m just weird though, and that other people don’t think this way.
Also; “Do you know how often I’ve heard women complaining about guys not knowing how to please them?”
No shit. According the CDC, less than 4% of men your age are have not had “sexual contact”; by the time you reach 30, it’s less than 2%.[1] Non-virgin men being worthless lovers is the norm not the exception (and more sex =/= better at it; women typically either put up with the bad sex and don’t care to teach or they move on). Faking orgasms is the norm for women.
-Unfortunately for a lot of women, the statistics show that this is pretty close to being true (about faking orgasms and not being sexually satisfied, I mean). I have never had to fake one since my FwB is very open to communication during sex and we can just tell/show each other what’s working and what’s not, but from what I’ve read online and heard from various women, mine is not the typical case. According to my sources, the majority of men they have been with find that being “told what to do” during sex is a major insult and that they feel what works for Woman A should work just as well for Woman B…which is about as far away from truth as you can get. (I wouldn’t expect Man A and Man B to have the same exact likes/dislikes either, though.) That being said, I’ve heard from the male side that plenty of women just lay there like a mannequin and don’t do much in the way of actually participating. Ladies, sex needs at least 2 partners. I’m not saying you should be fully responsible for your orgasms during sex, but remember that it’s more fun if everyone is moving around and having a good time.
Many men who think they ARE good lovers (and most men do) think that “good sex” for her means just the extra step of a few awkward tongue-flicks of the clitoris (as if muff-diving is little more than paying the toll to mount) before you hop on top of her and pump away for ~2-3 minutes. The best sex is a multi-faceted physical experience of which penetration is only a part; ideally, it should involve every inch of her body.
-I agree with everything he says here, with the addition of “It should involve every inch of his body.” Men are sensual creatures, too. Why should the sex be all about her needs, when he has his own? Fairness, people! Talk to each other about what you want. I promise, it’s not that difficult and can be pretty hot when done right.
“I’m pretty confident I can find my way around a woman’s body.” You’re obviously thoughtful and intelligent enough to make good on this. I believe in you…just make sure you’re challenging yourself in the masturbation sessions so that you don’t ejaculate too soon. Being a virgin, I can only assume that premature ejaculation could potentially be a serious problem when the real thing happens. Good luck.
-Eh, the only thing I dislike about this advice is how it caters to the idea that the sex is over/done once the man has cum. It’s like society at large has determined that hetero sex has to follow a standardized flow chart or something: Start > Kissing > Fondling > Nakedness > Foreplay > Female Orgasm > Penetration > Male Orgasm > Finish. This is not how it has to be, just so everyone knows.
I have a big problem with this concept, because it necessarily means that the male must hold off on his own climax until the couple is ready to be “done” with the sexy funtimes. Thus something that should only be viewed as a good occurrence (the guy’s orgasm) is put into a very shameful light if it happens too early (premature ejaculation). We women don’t have this issue to the same extent, because our bodies are designed for multiple orgasms.** But most men are only able to have 1, maybe 2, penile orgasms per encounter…putting more unnecessary pressure on them to hold off til the woman is fully satisfied. I can only imagine how stressful this is for a male virgin, especially if he’s with a female partner who has lots of experience.
Here’s an idea: If the man “prematurely ejaculates”, don’t stop having sex. Keep cuddling and lightly caressing so the fire doesn’t go out completely, and the situation stays hot. He can then bring off the woman with his fingers or mouth while waiting for his penis to be touchable again. Then both people will be less stressed out and orgasms shall be had all around. Hooray, orgasms! 😀
1. Chandra A, Mosher WD, Copen C, Sionean C. Sexual behavior, sexual attraction, and sexual identity in the United States: data from the 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth. Natl Health Stat Report. 2011;(36):1-36.
-This is a good resource he found. I highly recommend checking it out.
**Note: I feel I should mention that even though women can have multiple orgasms, it’s also possible for us to get too sensitive after a particularly big one. So, much like how a man’s penis is supersensitive after cumming, a woman’s clit can be too. As always, it’s important to be communicative with one’s partner so the most fun can be had by both.
Tarnished Sophia 
True. A lot of people liken the first time having sex as akin to making the first pancake. But my first pancakes always turn out awesome.
lmao and you are so right about that hetero flow chart. That’s pretty much the script for every porn video – amateur or otherwise – that I’ve ever seen.
An all-around awesome post. 🙂
Thanks, UV.
I bet your pancakes are awesome. Do you put anything special in them? I put mashed bananas and a dribble of vanilla extract in mine.
Oh, porn…if only it didn’t all look like it was directed by the same people every damn time. Eh, at least you can get something different with hentai, lol.
Actually no. I prefer my pancakes plain. Perhaps that’s an apt metaphor? 😉
That’s cool. Even plain pancakes go well with syrup.
I don’t even get it. There are lots of reasons to be a virgin and I can see it as a plus in a lot of ways. I think insecurities are getting the best of him.
That may be true in some part, but I can also greatly appreciate and understand how prolonged *unwanted* virginity is something that can be mentally and emotionally harmful. The commenter in question isn’t a 17 year old boy…he’s a 30+ year old man. After that long without experiencing any physical intimacy, I’d be insecure too.
I liked aspects of this post.
It got me thinking to how fulfilling sex is now that I am in my thirties versus when I was younger.
Frequently sex went like this:
Minimal kissing and foreplay>penetration>male orgasm>done.
Now it is more often like this:
Foreplay>penetration>male orgasm>him rubbing my clit>female orgasm>me wanting more sex>blow him>penetration>female orgasm>male orgasm>done.
Yeah, people tend to want more sex if there’s orgasms involved on their end. Whodathunkit?
I’ve never had sex either, (And never expect to.) but my conception of sex
would be the uninhibited merging of two seperate individuals into one.
If I were ever to engage in such an intimate activity, it would be with the full
understanding that this is the ONE person in my life, and that I’d never have
or want another person. She would have to be the encapsulation of every
love song rolled into one.
Heaven on earth! That is what the Venus in Pisces/ Moon in Cancer wants.
I’ll never get that, so I may as well die a miserible death. There is no middle
ground.
@Lon
You do realize that nobody, not even the world’s happiest couple, has something that perfect, right? I don’t care if you never want to have sex because it’s truly not an activity you desire…but do you really think being so depressed about your decision is good for your soul? The Gods want us to be happy, and in my view that includes enjoying the bodies we’ve gotten through years upon years of evolutionary progress. You are made to feel happiness and pleasure as well as sadness and pain, Lon. If not with anyone else, then at least love yourself…
Dear “Tarnished,”
You are ANYTHING but tarnished. Perhaps it is because I come from another
era, but I DO NOT appreciate the way that man adressed you on the
rantsofanincel blog. You make an earnest effort to understand the plight of
the “unloved.” The fact is, there is ALWAYS some other person who SEEMS
to have something you deem necessary for your “completion.” Some say that
people are ALREADY complete, but are unaware of it. In our life, we have had
many “additions” that we think are essential for our happiness. We identify
with these people and things that we think are important to our well being
and fear their loss. If a person has basic, rudimentrary survival knowledge,
such as: how to read, how to write, add and subtract, and employable
“job skills,” their MATERIAL survive is assured. Memory, in fact, is ONLY for
those mechanical skills.
I say, “To the physical goes the physical. To the spiritual , goes the spiritual.”
The physical can do NOTHING for the spiritual. But the spiritual CAN do
something for the physical: “Thy faith has made you WHOLE.”
My problem is that I never even mastered the rudimentry “commonplace stuff.
By cutting myself off from social contact at such a young age, I didn’t
experiece the natural give and take a child must learn to “grow-up” normal.
I quite literally don’t know how to behave in “normal” situations. So like a tourist
who offends social sensabilites in a foreign land, I bring out the worst abrasive
reactions in others. I’m NOT a sociopathic type or I WOULD have done
something violent by now. I see myself as a likely victim of crime, rather then
a perputratior of crime. I have accumluated a vast storehouse of spiritual
understanding but I can’t employ it well, because I am so inept at ordinary
things. I DO have Mercury opposite Jupiter.
You might want to google my name and look at postings I’ve made on this
and other subjects. I’m very partial to Casey Anthony, because SOME of
my placements are the same as hers. People love to hate her, as they
have loved to hate me. She is my POLAR opposite. A masculine girl.
I am an “effet” boy. I feel sympathy for her plight, but her fate will be much
better then mine.”
Thank you for being so open, Lon.
First, I’d like you to not worry about rmax. He used to “comment” here, and is (to this very day) the only person I’ve ever had to ban. He’s also the singular reason my blog is on a consistent moderation. I do not want anyone to be hurt here…men, women, trans, virgin, experienced, Christian, or atheist. Some mock the idea of a “safe space”, but not I.
There are times when I wonder if my attempts to understand various points of view are really worth it. For example, I care about the men who comment on rantsofanincel, love-shy forums, and thatincelblogger, just as I care for the authors/moderators of said blogs. But it does drain me, mentally and emotionally, to read them. I have a difficult time reading about how every person of my sex is cold, heartless, undeserving of bodily autonomy, and should go back to complete political/financial dependence on men. It’s a strange conundrum, to want to offer acceptance when it’s clear that no acceptance would be offered to me and my lifestyle choices in exchange.
I’m sure at this point Spawny would say I need to take care of myself first and foremost, but this is not my personality. I can’t *not* care about other people, even when they wish I were dead, or worse, stripped of all the rights and freedoms I hold so dear. Yet I believe *someone* has to listen…why not I?
You only bring out the abrasiveness in others because they have not yet learned how to love. Our society doesn’t teach the new generations that it is so very important to care for one another…I only can speak for the US, but I can see that materialism and consumerism is the way of the world here. Of course, there *are* always those who go beyond this…making wheelchairs for the uninsured, opening soup kitchens for the homeless, giving free physical therapy to war veterans, even just listening to someone who needs a shoulder, any shoulder to cry on. But I know we are the few, not the majority, and this is a problem. Perhaps the worst problem of all.
I do not love to hate anyone. Hate is such a permanent emotion. Once you let it in, it eats you, bites into your heart and mind, makes your perceptions of others, even random strangers, murky and unclear. Fear is the cousin to hate, but at least that can be overcome with enough clarity and willpower.
I must get ready for work now, but please take care of yourself, Lon.
“Why should the sex be all about her needs, when he has his own?”
It has been my sorry experience that women expect to set the table but not to serve. That is left up to him. He “knows” what to do, so that she doesn’t have to be a slut and participate. I suspect this is something they learn from their mothers. “Just provide access and wait for him to finish. It won’t take long!”
And forget about talking about sex. That’s too “icky” or “gross”. I’ve had more sexy times immediately terminate upon indicating that I wasn’t satisfied or wanted something she wasn’t prepared to accommodate. I either accept what I get, or I get no more.
For the kind of sex you speak of, and which it appears our “virgin” seeks, requires that a woman be willing to spend some time with her partner. It is again my sad experience to report that getting his rocks off and then getting dressed is generally the norm no matter how much women complain they didn’t get theirs. That TV or iPhone interaction is more important than the physical one they just squashed. And if he doesn’t like THAT, some other guy will be along when she wants more “action”.
@Blurkel
It only takes a long time if you do it right. 😉
Lol at “he knows what to do”…what if he doesn’t? Isn’t it the responsibility of each partner to communicate what they’d like to get out of the encounter? Not all women or men enjoy the same exact things!
Talking about sex is sexy. You can do it in a serious way, a playful way, a seductive way…all of which (imo) get the blood flowing. By “terminate” you mean you said (for example) “hey, I’d like to do anal” and instead of discussing it, she just completely stopped the sex? Weird. I think that unless it’s something that is illegal or can truly harm someone, sex partners should be able to talk about new positions. If it can’t actually hurt you, why not give it at least one try?
I wonder if the women you’ve been with are like that because they have severe arousal difficulties, or haven’t had any previous partners who fully participate in sex? Something like a full quarter to a third of American women have sexual problems, which I find to be utterly amazing given how sex-crazed our culture’s media is.
Btw, can you talk about your last sentence in more detail? I don’t understand what “action” she’d be looking for if she has a willing partner already that wants more sex. That’s like going to the grocery store when your fridge and pantry are full. No comprendo.
You asked for it, you got it, Toyota!
“Lol at “he knows what to do”…what if he doesn’t?”
She blames him when she isn’t satisfied and leaves him behind to find someone else who might. Happened to me more than once.
“Isn’t it the responsibility of each partner to communicate what they’d like to get out of the encounter?”
It should be. But it’s my experience that women hint at what they mean since they feel uncomfortable being overt when discussing sex. He’s left to figure out what she really means, and usually gets it wrong if she gives him another opportunity. He had not bring up anything he might want from her, for he won’t get it and might lose what she was willing to provide. Happened to me more than once.
“By “terminate” you mean you said (for example) “hey, I’d like to do anal” and instead of discussing it, she just completely stopped the sex?”
Yes. All of the above. It seems that unless the sex is male on top PIV missionary, it’s too perverse to discuss. Even the few women I’ve known who are willing to try something (ONCE!) can’t talk about it before OR after. Only once did I get a meaningful comment in response to a request: “it makes me feel like a slut”. Whatever the request, it’s now in the past, and the past isn’t to be resurrected. Shame, perhaps? It’s the only thing I can come up with to explain it.
“I wonder if the women you’ve been with are like that because they have severe arousal difficulties, or haven’t had any previous partners who fully participate in sex?”
I have never found a woman willing to discuss either possibility.
“Something like a full quarter to a third of American women have sexual problems, which I find to be utterly amazing given how sex-crazed our culture’s media is.”
The sex-craze comes from not actually doing sex. The frustration has to emerge somehow.
It’s my opinion (subject to revision) that most women never get past the two admonitions strongly implanted by their mothers: THOU SHALT NOT! and GOOD GIRLS DON’T – EVER! About the only thing I know of which trumps the power of these directives is the desire for motherhood. Women are allowed to silence the admonitions in pursuit of pregnancy – post -matrimony.
As for my last sentence in the previous comment, think about this for a moment: “the sex is male on top PIV missionary”. Any desire which deviates from this can mean that he’s lost his sex rights with her. She may well have come to like sex a little, and will seek to replace the guy who tried to expand her limits with another guy who will observe them if the request is deemed to excessive.
QED?
Didn’t know where else to put this:
Question for you. You consider yourself a ‘masculine’ woman. I presume your sexual preference is males?
If so, would you make a boyfriend out of a feminine man? Or do you prefer a man more masculine than you?
That’s okay, I’m not overly picky about where comments go.
This post should answer your first question quite well: https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/gender-dysphoria-and-sex/
As for the second part, yes…sure I would. It’s actually kind of funny, my FwB is already a somewhat “feminine” guy, despite not looking feminine at all.
I’m an INTJ, he’s an ENFP.
I am not a cuddler/hugger, he loves spooning.
I am more in control of my emotions, he is an open page with how he feels.
I am happier when with a small group of friends/family, he loves being the center of attention.
I am almost always in charge of planning our outings/entertainment.
I enjoy having some time alone everyday to read and contemplate/debate, he is a social butterfly.
We’ve seen each other cry the same number of times.
I have more disposable income, so I pay for our “dates” 99% of the time. I also buy him little gifts every once in a while, whereas he only does for birthdays or holidays.
So, yes…if a guy had more stereotypically feminine traits than I, I’d definitely date him. In fact, I am very turned off by displays of “macho” behavior, and very much disapprove of chivalry. Traditional or thuggish men and I wouldn’t get along at all.
Oh, and I think I should clarify: I am not, nor have I ever been, upset or frustrated that I am the one who plans or pays for our meals/entertainment. Nor do I get angry that I’m the one who initiates sex 9/10 times (though I do wish he would more often, it’s not his nature). This is just how things are, and works best for our personality types.
I think a lot of the manosphere forgets that there are feminine men who are very happy with their masculine women, and neither side should be shamed for staying true to themselves. The issues come up, I believe, when you have a feminine woman with a feminine man, or a masculine woman with a masculine man…balance is required in a relationship to remain strong. Your partner should even out your strengths and weaknesses, but it shouldn’t matter if their sex matches the gender roles.
Ive had feminine and masculine women into me. I believe Im a INTP or INTJ as well.
Sadly, being 5’2, it never worked out, due to internal or external pressures. I might just leave the country just to be the same size as all the other thugs.
I personally believe it’s silly to try to “shop” for a partner who will automatically sexually service you exactly as you desire, when you could get the satisfaction you crave by simply by being a better teacher/communicator with your current lover. Of course, if said current lover doesn’t want to alter what they do even though it doesn’t work, then yeah…you’re not compatible in that way.
Ha, well that’s not me. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I love discussing sex. I like watching porn (both to get off and for fresh ideas), I enjoy reading about new positions to try, I like hearing about other people’s fun sexytimes, I congratulate my friends when they tell me “hey, I got some last night!”. Consensual sex is great, and fun, and awesome. More people should do it on a weekly, if not daily, basis.
Oh, for Gods’ sakes. If you want to be tied up and have your nipples pulled, you should be able to say that. If you want a mini vibrator in your ass while getting a blowjob, you shouldn’t be ashamed to ask for it. So long as nobody actually gets hurt (real hurt, not bdsm hurt) who cares what you do to spice up your sex life?
If your partner suggests something you aren’t sure about, you should try it at least once. Then you’ll have the experience necessary to say “no, I don’t like this”…or conversely, you’ll have found a new thing to enjoy. I didn’t think I’d enjoy anal sex, and it’s still not my favorite position, but it’s an okay one every once in a while. Certainly nothing I’d deny my lover just because.
Missionary position is nice, but there’s literally an entire book of positions you can use. Why limit yourself so much? Feeling like a slut, or a “slave”, or any other role is just that…a role. You aren’t actually that thing, any more than I’m actually a Tiefling Rogue when I play D&D. Sex games/positions aren’t an indicator of how you are outside the bedroom. Besides, who is going to know unless you feel the need to tell all your friends about it?
I don’t know…the only times I felt ashamed about asking for something different/kinky with my lover was during our first few encounters. I thought since I’d been shown the bad/nonconsensual side of sex, that meant I wasn’t supposed to like sex…ever. It was a little scary and confusing to find I greatly enjoy bdsm, but after thinking about it I came to the aforementioned conclusion: That this type of sex is a game, and has no bearing on what I am like IRL or with other people. I am not a “bad/good girl” or a “sex slave” in my daily life, nor would I want to be…but it’s a lot of fun to play one a few times a month.
That’s cool, it seems a higher than usual proportion of men/women in the manosphere (or egalitarian border, like myself) are this personality type. Which is odd, because INTJ is typically only accounting for approx. 3% of men and 1% of women. I wonder what implications, if any, this might have…
I never understood this thing about height. I’m 5’7″, and my FwB is 6’2″. I’m going to be on a date next week with a guy who’s 5’10” (both guys know about each other, I’m very honest). But if I met a nice guy who was…idk, say 5’0″…and not traditional, I’d certainly consider him for a date. It’s not as though height is something you can control, so why judge based on it?
http://www.reddit.com/r/ForeverAlone/comments/29znqs/should_a_52_male_leave_the_west/
Read that and get back to me.
“… being a better teacher/communicator with your current lover.”
While I could treasure such a partner, I have never had the experience. I suspect far too many deal with imposed guilt trips to be so open.
I agree overall with the balance of your comments, but I decided long ago to cast aside the imposed hesitations regarding sexual expression. I’m not one of those who doesn’t own my own sexuality. One can almost make the case that there should be a forum opened for those of us who like sex who have partners who can’t or won’t. We might derive some answers to our problems that way.
I have an Open Thread post already, but I could always make another that is a particular topic. Let me know if you’d want me to do this, I’ve no problem hosting such a thing. It may not completely solve any issues, but if people have the chance to ask questions and receive honest answers, it could help create bridges of communication.
Open Thread: I’m game to give it a try. Let’s see what happens!
Okay. Any guidelines? Or just an open thread about sex, how to ask for something new from your partner, what men vs women enjoy, etc?
@EvilOne
Okay, I read it and all the comments. There’s one commenter, Starlight Caboose I think their name was, who I basically agree with. I thought they asked good questions and gave decent advice.
Give me a day to ponder and I will get back to you. I’m more inclined to limit the scope, at least initially. Your suggestions are good ones, so I might change my mind on the scope.
#Open Thread Idea
I’ve given it some thought, and I think I’d like the thread to focus on the problems being in a sexually mismatched relationship causes and what has been tried to solve those problems. I’ve had the idea that many relationship problems stem from this whether people know it or not. How do we begin?
@Blurkel
I’m working from 10am-11:30pm today (hooray double shift…too bad I’m salary). I’ll roll the possibilities around in my head for a bit, then get back to you tomorrow. Sound good?
@Tarnished
That works for me. I await your communication.
Alright, how about this;
-Intro to open thread #2
-Asking if reader has experience with mismatched libidos
-Asking if this impacted the relationship as a whole and how severely
-Asking what steps, if any, were taken to fix this issue and how well they worked
Anything else you’d like to add?
Those look good, but I would add what was done if the issue wasn’t resolved satisfactorily. It isn’t always.
When do we start?
Yknow,
Ive always wondered about this:
Do people who have the sexual market value to get into relationships also have the market value to get casual sex (assuming their personalities allowed it)?
I ask because Ive been offered relationships quite a few times, but Im unsure about casual stuff.
@EvilOne
That’s an excellent question. I would assume that anyone with enough SMV to get and maintain a long term relationship would also be able to get at least some casual sex.
I’ve been offered relationships numerous times as well, though unfortunately the majority of this occurred when I was emotionally/mentally unable to give of myself. You can’t love someone else when you don’t love yourself, you know? I’m going to try the casual thing eventually…you probably should too, especially if you find someone who can give you no-strings-attached pleasure while still caring about you as a person. (That’s how I’m going to treat any casual partners I have, anyway.)
@Tarnished
Casual sex is everywhere if one chooses to accept it.
BUT . . .
There was a recent episode of Louis CK’s show (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/louie-fat-lady_n_5318871.html) which generated a bit of controversy. A woman who had been pursuing Louis’ character went into a rant about how if sex was what a woman wanted, she could have it. She, however, preferred non-sexual interaction.
I only bring this up because I felt it said in a few minutes what I directly heard many women say. This attitude makes casual sex not so available for most men.
@Blurkel
There is no doubt in my mind that if I wanted a different casual sex partner every night for a month, I could do so. I don’t think anyone would argue that men can get casual sex as easily as 98% of women can. It is what it is.
But casual sex, to me, is a bit of an oddity, especially if it was a one night stand (which I’m pretty confident I’ll never be daring enough to do). If you read my post “What Is Sex?”, you’ll see that I don’t view physical intimacy as a mere joining of Slot A and Tab B…there’s vulnerability, care, respect for the other person and yourself, a necessary willingness to give and receive more than is typical. It just seems this would be difficult, if not impossible, to do with one-time casual sex.
In spite of this, I do feel for those who desire casual sex (the majority of whom are cis, straight men) but cannot find it.
It can be found. One merely has to meet the price – and THAT is what separates the casuals from the sideliners.
What is the “price”?
The price depends on the professional purveyor delivering what has been requested. After all, it is said that one doesn’t pay a hooker to perform. One pays her to leave, quietly.
Lol, I’ve heard that too. But one who is in a relationship shouldn’t “pay” for sex. That’s why anytime I dated (poorly) in high school, I made sure to “go dutch” on the meals and entertainment. Sex is a reciprocal gift, not a toll or tax.
I was made Dutch payment promises, but none of them were ever realized – especially not the condition of wedded domestic bliss in which I now reside.
Why stay? I have no desire to lose contact with my kids and grandkids. Leaving Grandma would result in my being shunned.
I am 25, and never had physical or sexual intimacy in my entire life. I am debating whether I should be taught the ropes similar to the guy in The Surrogate. I know it is controversial, since the woman was married, but what the hell was the guy supposed to do? I never really had a chance in college at all (I was in college from 19-23). I would possibly like to pursue a FwB or ask a woman who I trust to help me learn the ropes. My life has been very hard at times, and I feel very insecure at times due to not having intimacy at all from women.
I can sympathize with you to a point, eoylus. I was a virgin till 22 (I don’t count abuse as experience), and got teased and mocked by my college peers mercilessly when they found out.
If it helps, I was in college from age 17-22…I’d done an advanced program in the first semester of my senior year that let me attend the local community college part time. So I didn’t even have sex until after college, which I know is odd in the US.
I have never seen The Surrogate, but I don’t look down on independent sex workers or their clients. Prostitution is only a bad thing if it involves human trafficking…if the sex worker in question is doing it because they want to and it provides steady income, I fully support it.
One thing I’d like to ask is this; Why do you feel insecure because of lack of intimacy? Is it due to our culture presuming that you’re not an adult till you’ve shared your virginity, or is it the feeling of “missing out” on an experience? Is it a pain of not being physically loved, or is it just wanting to not be a virgin anymore? Or something else?
It is somewhat related to our culture presuming that you’re not an adult till you’ve shared your virginity, the feeling of “missing out” on an experience and the pain of not being physically loved. A combo of those things. More-so, I feel that to be good at sex, I need to have practice with someone more experienced. I am completely against human trafficking, but I support independent sex workers, their clients and sex surrogates. I never ever felt physically loved by women in a way more than a friend. I had a LDR ex who sent me electronic hugs, cuddles and kisses, but I feel those do not really count because they aren’t the real thing. I never disclosed my virginity to anyone except trusted friends and counselors at my college because I feared I would be mocked endlessly like you were. It hurt even more bad in college when I would accidentally go into a lounge and see a couple cuddling. I am short, only five foot three and had not much luck on online dating sites. I weigh about 110 pounds, so I am smaller than many guys. I am also an ectomorph, and I am not muscular. So, I feel that my chances with women are very slim because of my social awkwardness, body type and height.
Ectomorph?
An ectomorph is a body type defined by low levels of muscles, a high metabolism, angular body shape, and a thin body. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/178685/ectomorph
Ah, okay. Thanks for that. 🙂
I have friends and customers who are like that.
I wonder what type of women would be attracted to me. Chances are, very few women are interested in a guy of my height, even if they are my height or shorter. So my chances are very slim. I hate having to resort to using my pillow as a surrogate, since I have no one to be physically intimate with and I feel unwanted constantly. It tears up my confidence. What is even worse is having memories of seeing people engaging in physically intimate activities, such as kissing or cuddling, whereas I was alone, rejected and placed in the friend zone.
I wish I had answers for you, eoylus. My own preferences are initially based on scent, then muscle amount (I prefer guys without chiseled/pretty boy bodies) then personality. There’s other criteria like good teeth and hygiene too…but those are hardly something that is unique to me. I don’t care about height at all. I’m 5’7″ and my one lover is 6’2″, but I’d love him if he was 4’0″ if everything else remained the same.
In my humble opinion, I’d recommend that you seek out the services of a professional cuddler. I’ve no idea where you live exactly, but if you’re anywhere near Rochester, NY there’s a place called The Snuggery. It’s run by 2 pleasant looking ladies who will sit with, lie next to, and just snuggle with you in pajamas. It’s good for people who’ve lost spouses, are recuperating from surgery, or are in your position. Maybe this would help?
Sorry, I wish I had better suggestions. 😦
Here’s the site, in case you or any lurkers are interested: http://www.thesnuggery.org
Sorry, I live in FL, so that’s a long ways away from NY. I am not sure if FL has businesses similar to that. Otherwise, I might have to convince a close female friend about being a cuddle buddy or FwB.
Or even save up and go get deep tissue massages, or get pampered at a spa. It’s not anything I’d do, but I know guys who swear by it.