MGTOW Survey Results Part 2: Opinions

Well, here it is…finally. The long awaited second of three posts regarding the results of my MGTOW survey. Apologies for the wait!

Once again, I want to thank the original 22 gentlemen who took time out of their days to respond to my survey. Whether you commented on the post, emailed me privately, or gave answers on forums, I really appreciated it. Guys, this literally couldn’t have been done without you! I also know that since the cutoff date a number of other men have given their answers. Not to worry…yours will be worked into the update I write in December.

Question 1: What does MGTOW mean to you?
Of 22 respondents, they said it’s:
-5 Adapting to social changes (23%)
-7 A necessary protective stance (32%)
-10 Living according to own standards (45%)

Question 2: What’s your reaction to how MGTOW is presented in the media?
Of 22 respondents, they said the media:
-4 Ignorant of true definition (18%)
-5 Swept under rug completely (23%)
-4 Don’t seem to do any research (18%)
-3 had no response (14%)
-6 Didn’t care what the media said (27%)

Question 3: Do you think MGTOW is necessarily a part of the “marriage strike” or is it separate but overlapping?
Of 22 respondents, they replied:
-5 MGTOW is not a part of this strike (23%)
-4 MGTOW is the same thing (18%)
-13 MGTOW is a natural outgrowth/overlap (59%)

Question 4: Would you ever not be a MGTOW, or are you happiest being single anyway?
Of 22 respondents, they stated that:
-13 were happiest being single (59%)
-3 were married, living in an Asian country (14%)
-2 were married, to an old-fashioned woman (9%)
-2 were married, living in a Hispanic country (9%)
-2 were currently single, but would be open to marrying a “NAWALT” (9%)

Question 6: Most would say that if you’re married, you can’t truly be MGTOW. Thoughts?
Of 22 respondents, they believe:
-10 MGTOW necessarily means unwed (45%)
-12 Married men can be MGTOWs (55%)

Question 14: What are the 3 biggest aspects of society that would have to change to make you consider not being MGTOW?
Of 22 respondents, the most mentioned changes were:
-11 Always be MGTOW (50%)
-4 Less restrictive gender roles (18%)
-5 Return to patriarchal families (23%)
-6 Alter how the media portrays men (27%)
-7 Readily available male contraceptives (32%)
-3 Repeal female voting rights (14%)
-4 Eliminate “no fault” divorce (18%)
-3 Decrease government interference in marriages (14%)
-5 Create fully equal laws (23%)
-4 Eliminate lifetime alimony (18%)
-5 Teach women to be more kind/respectful to men (23%)

So, there you have it…straight from the mouths of MGTOWs themselves! What do you think, readers?

The original survey:

Part 1:


116 thoughts on “MGTOW Survey Results Part 2: Opinions

  1. I don’t quite get the goal of the MGTOW movement. Is it too reject women,
    or is it free men from dependency on women?

  2. Hi missattempts.

    The MGTOW “movement” is composed of men who want to live life by their terms. Some become husbands, some only have casual sex or short term relationships, others have friends with benefits, and still others avoid interacting with any women who aren’t family/coworkers. There’s no set-in-stone rules simply because it is MGTOW…men going their *own* way.

    I would probably recommend that you take a read through the various posts I have under my “MGTOW” category tag. Even though I fully support men who are MGTOWs, as a female-bodied person I can’t honestly say my own choices for remaining single are exactly the same as theirs. We do have some overlap, of course, but it would be better for you to read the comments from MGTOW men directly.

    Hope this helps. Don’t hesitate to ask more questions!

  3. tarn,

    I had to spend some time examining this part 2.

    You have obtained some of the data by cross-referencing questions. Time-consuming to do, but accurate. I cross-checked some of it! πŸ˜‰

    It’s worth looking at results part 2 closely. There’s value. Thank you.

  4. @Cill

    Lol, thanks for checking my work. πŸ˜‰

    This section took me the longest because of just how in-depth a lot of the answers were. And yes…it involved a huge amount of cross referencing. Remember though, that a number of responses were not given here so you won’t find everything that’s listed above.

    The only “bad” thing about Part 2 is how much I had to distill it to it’s bare bones. It is an accurate report, but a lot is lost in making the answers easy to reference. 😦

  5. I went back to my answers in the comment thread of that post. I tried to see where my answers lined up with the categories offered. I’m guessing you had to apply some subjectivity in order to get answers to fit. Just sayin’.

  6. @Blurkel

    Unfortunately, yeah. As I mentioned to Cill earlier, I attempted to give as many answers as possible without turning the results into a full on paper. By doing so, though, I fear some of it was lost.

    If you’ve any ideas on how to fix this (other than creating another, more in-depth post), please let me know!

  7. With respect to yearning for a woman, and love FOR a woman, it is
    inconcievable that a “healthy” man could “go his own way.”
    Many a man has taken his own life, and the life of women because they felt
    condemned to “go their own way.”

  8. @tarn

    I worked on a survey once (NEVER AGAIN!). In order to facilitate the statistics, the questions were given a 7 point preference scale ranging from complete agreement to complete disagreement. It would be hard to adapt that processing to your survey, which is instead an interpretive study. About the only technique available that I -the non-expert- am aware of would be to use key words and phrases to lump together like responses. That was the method I used with my own responses to your questions in order to approximate where I thought they ended up categorically.

  9. Precisely. I had initially considered making this a multiple choice type survey, but decided that it would not allow for as much open communication as I’d like. Using common contexts and phrases did indeed help me to create the percentages, just as you say, and will most likely be the route I take for Part 3 as well.

    As it stands, I still believe it is of great importance that non-MGTOW readers and commenters actually take the time to view the quality answers that were given in the original survey.

  10. I tried to conduct a “survey” once, only to realize I was hopelessly out of my depth. It’s tough. I respect you for doing this. The results are worth it.

    And now, you clever rascal, you have me panting for “Part 3” πŸ˜‰

  11. I learned how to in my Statistics class in college. If it weren’t for that, I’d also be pretty bad at it, lol. Even so, I made the mistake of asking a leading question which skewed the answers in some cases. (Assuming that MGTOWs were nearly always single/unmarried men was an oversight on my part.)

  12. Handy link for MissApprehension.

    It explains that mgtow is a male choice. A positive one to make his life about his own happiness, rather than the harpiness of a partner of the female persuasion. Not a negative thing at all.

    Kind of like light heartedly flipping this gynocentric culture the bird and wandering off whistling, looking for better ways to live than as a provider pack mule for an ungrateful wife/girlfriend/LJBF.

    Enjoy! Lot of great stuff there, but the essence is to live life for yourself.


  13. Excellent link, Spawny. I enjoy that site myself…has lots of stories from men who got the short end of the stick. It’s unfortunate, but a worthy resource.

    Also…you wrote “harpiness”. Was this intentional? πŸ˜‰

  14. My need for a woman’s love and intamacy is as essential as a flower’s need
    for water and sunshine. As essential as my next breath.
    God made Yin & Yang. That’s Positive/Negative Day/Night Male/Female.
    The two genders will ALWAYS need each other except for a few unbalanced
    exceptions. Anyone who claims to be happy without love and intamacy is a
    liar or a fool. “It is not right that a man should be alone.”-The Bible.

  15. As a decent number of my commenters are atheist/agnostic, and I myself am Wiccan…I’m really not sure that quoting from Genesis will do much for your argument.

    Also, I’d suggest that you keep in mind that the bible was written between 3500 and 2000 years ago…though even I will admit there are some good books in it, we must remember that the civilization we live in now is drastically different than the ones said authors knew. Laws, gender interactions, religions, economics, transportation, communication, education, and a multitude of other areas of life have vastly changed. It would be rather foolhardy to believe that all rules and myths from an entirely separate age would be just as valid in today’s society.

    Lastly, you should read through the original survey I posted as well as Spawny’s link again (if you even have yet). For what it’s worth, I agree with your premise that few people can claim to be happy without love and intimacy of some kind…But if a man is in a relationship that doesn’t provide him with either of those, should he truly be forced to remain in it? If a man is used purely for the resources he has rather than accepted and treasured for his actual value as a person, is this not just another…perhaps harsher…version of “being alone”? It is horrible to be single and unloved, as some incels live with. But can you honestly say that being married and unloved is any more preferable?

  16. @missattempts

    I also just noticed that you said “my need”…are you a lesbian/bisexual woman, or a man? From your name, I think Spawny and I were assuming you were female.

  17. Missy.
    Speak for yourself.

    Your comment just sounds like a hippy dippy new age mish mash of dribble to me. You need to put down the romantic poetry.

    I don’t need a woman, thanks very much. I can find them pleasant to be around. I’m not saying unicorn women don’t exist, just that the return on investment of a unicorn hunt is too poor.

    Family court / divorce court (even just for cohabitation in some parts of the world) means the risk vs reward is way out of whack just to have a mediocre woman around.

    Just what of indisputable value do they bring to the table apart from reproduction? And I don’t want kids.

    Best of luck with pedestalising women, but I hope you get a grip on reality before you get reamed by going around with your head up your arse.

    Have a lovely day, whatever you are.

  18. @Tarn
    yep, it’s a two way thing. I never pretended otherwise. As a born again Adonis (don’t tell warn Cill or his sisters) that isn’t an issue for me. In *cough* reality *cough* I regularly have to carry around a shitty stick to wave warningly at flocks of gorgeous women who just cannot take no for an answer…most tiring, my dear, very wearisome making. I often consider going out and about wearing a masterful disguise making me look like a short, fat and bald guy who drools a lot. Clearly such a disguise may take whole minutes to don, but it might just be worth it to escape the pursuing babes…I mean look what happened to this guy (he isn’t nearly as handsome as me, with my movie star looks(tm) )


  19. You find “women pleasant to be around?” Well, let me say i DO NOT share
    that assessment.
    I’m sick of being tormented by the vision of pretty women. Every trip to the
    supermarket is AGONY! Where do I go where they are NOT?
    There is a saying: “It’s easy for a person with a full belly to speak about fasting.”
    It’s easy for a person with an ongoing sex life to speak say women are garbage.
    The MGTOW movement ridiculed Eliot Rodger. They knew he could never be a
    MGTOW, because he never had sex to begin with.
    Maybe The Unfortunate Virgin MIGHT consider being a MGTOW, after his
    20,000th sexual experience.

  20. Eliot Rodger had a host of other issues…I’ve read about half of his “autobiography” and it’s pretty clear that he had incredibly low self esteem. I’m not one for making armchair diagnosis on anyone…I’ve no psychiatry training. But he admits he only ever approached one girl in his entire life and got rejected. He didn’t try to join any clubs, talk to any more women, get into any social circles…he basically only had online friends via World of Warcraft and the like. His parents divorced when he was 7, after being told they wouldn’t. I’m sure this didn’t help him build trust in others, especially when he didn’t take his anxiety medication.

    He also acted like being a virgin at age 22 was a punishment of epic proportions. You know who else was a virgin till 22? Me. But I could see I had problems (severe distrust, touch phobia, unrealized demisexuality, fear of sex) and took the leap when I found a partner who was willing to help me. It was terrifying, but it was the only way to break free from the wall I’d built to protect myself from further abuse.

    He had money and free time. He should have gone to one of the snuggling/hugging houses that are getting ever more popular…allowed himself to feel the warmth of another person around him. Hell, if I’d known him and the pain he was going through *I* would have held him myself, even though I really don’t like cuddling or extended touching.

    The healthcare system failed him by not checking up on him enough. Society failed him by creating a culture where everyone is out for themselves. People around him failed him by not just opening their eyes for once and seeing a fellow human being who needed to know he wasn’t an island. But he failed himself by committing suicide, and he failed basic morality by taking others with him. Suicide is a terrible thing, and a desire I struggled with for many years. I can sadly understand why some would choose to go through with it…but murder is a whole other issue since you are taking something that is not yours, nor can it ever be returned.

    If he’d joined a MGTOW group, he may have become a voluntary celibate instead. At the very least, he’d have learned that he had Actual Value even if he didn’t have Sexual Market Value, and that getting the approval of women isn’t necessary for happiness.

    For you: There are few places you could go where women are not. Monasteries are good choices. Men’s getaway camps or masculinity resorts. Certain classes or jobs have incredibly low amounts of women in them. Shopping late at night will typically mean seeing them less.

    And I know in the past you said you were against masturbation, and I don’t want to embarrass you or seem crude, but it will definitely make it easier to handle seeing pretty women if you allow yourself pleasure now and then. Even if you only do it a few times a month, it really should help. Just don’t feel guilty about it afterwards…you have a body that is meant to feel good. Don’t condemn yourself to a life without physical release.

  21. Hmmm
    I said “I can find them pleasant to be around.”

    The ‘can’ was very deliberate. It very much helps that I’m not chasing them…No pressure (outcome independence).

    What I meant to convey was that I don’t hate women. The redpill means that I understand them for what most of them are. They’re not monsters, they have their programming that often makes them casually misandric (at best). That isn’t the same thing as being evil. Men have their own programming…It’s different, but has its own problems, let’s not kid ourselves.

    Tarn is very atypical BTW. I don’t know about dysphoria, but in my experience you are conversing with a logical male mind. Logical for a male mind, even. And a very straight forward one too. If she says something, it’s worth thinking about. If you disagree, she’ll argue rationally.

    I would never, NEVER, ridicule a virgin. I wasn’t an early starter, my personality (INT) makes the chase not very enjoyable. I’m divorced and won’t do that again. My N is comfortably lower than 20000, just for the record.

    I don’t know if you think I’m socially playful from what you’ve seen in comments? I am, this is me, but it developed with confidence from work and life. I don’t know how old you are, but my advice (FWIW) is go find something better to do than fuss about women. Life is better that way, but the odd thing is that you might find the more competent, confident you has better luck anyway.

    It’s 4am here, I’m happy to chat with you again, but not now!

    Again FWIW, even at my advanced age I’m a more rational man after I’ve masturbated than before. Just try and keep the fantasy a pleasant one, don’t program yourself to see sex as a hate/angry act. Nor as some female romcom fantasy either. It’s your fantasy after all.

    The world is not laughing at you, there are men that care about their younger brothers. The market place has changed, experiences vary…but there are men that care. That’s what feminism has done, it has estranged the generations of men. But men love kicking the crap out of problems like that. We live to solve problems.

    Earlier today I got a great compliment from a guy commenting on another blog (justfourguys). He said that I and Tarn had helped him be a happier guy. Made my week.

    Stick around, I’ll try and do the same to you. You have been warned πŸ˜‰

  22. Cill, I did zap it, not because it’s untrue (it absolutely is), but because I want them to unmask themselves. I know it, you know it, I’m pretty sure Spawny knows it…but if the mask should come off when they are ready.

  23. Spawny at September 28, 2014 at 2:03 PM

    If that’s not a short, fat and bald guy who drools a lot disguised as a short, fat and bald guy who drools a lot, then I’m a short, fat and bald guy who drools a lot and not a svelte Kiwi…

  24. I was talking about the selfie that habitually sits to the left of your messages, Spawny. The handsome, strapping bloke on the phone. I’m sure you understand

  25. Another thing,

    I happen to know that Tarnished was cavorting with bears recently, when her boss had given her a definite window to be working at Part 3
    Shame, shame!

  26. Do you think I should reproduce the lyrics here, tarn? On second thoughts, dunno if they’d be appropriate to Part 3 πŸ˜‰

  27. You said there were some places a person could go where women were not.
    Like late night shopping and monestaries.
    Did you hear about the incubus and sucibus? Even convents and monestaries
    were not safe from opposite sex intruders. A person could go to a cave in
    the Himalays and still be tormented by sexual urges.
    I don’t accept a “don’t-raise-the-bridge-lower-the-water solution for the
    torments of the “unlucky.”
    Just as Jesus said: “The poor you will ALWAYS have with you.” It follows that:
    “The lovelorn losers you will always have with you.”
    A whining miseriable attitude would solve nothing, and only drive more people
    away. Masturbation is fine for people who’ve “been there and done that.”
    But it won’t work for the person who’s NEVER BEEN THERE, AND NEVER
    DONE THAT, and has zero prospects of doing so. Others are LIVING, I am not.
    This area is only one of many heartaches associated with life, which is why
    Albert Camus said: “The essential question about life was whether it was
    worth living at all.”

  28. Whew, that was close! I had my finger poised over the Post button but withdrew it j-u-u-st in time. 😐
    Vanity, thy name is Cill

  29. No presure Cill, but you said kind things about Tarn and me regarding our actions. Care to expand on that? (via email via Tarn if you wish) The reason that I ask is that helping you is entirely something I would like to do for others. Some inkling of what I did would help me, I think, to do it again. ‘Miss’ would be an ideal target for love bombing, I think… πŸ˜‰

    I mean, come on ‘Miss’, however bad you have it as a man, would you seriously trade it for being a woman? (not like Tarn(!) Tarn is sane with an independant mind) A member of the herd whose every action is inspected by her peers, everything she wears is analysed, her hair etc? Is she slutty enough to get attention? Too slutty to attract the right guy? What do her frenemies think of her, are they talking behind her back? in front of her?

    Let’s be real here, the problems such a woman has are not caused by men, or teh patriarchy (face palm). They are caused by her intra-herd competition in the female societal crab bucket and her inability to escape it.

    Males have their issues, but jeezus, would you swap them for a typical woman’s?

    Women aren’t your enemy (feminists are), they just aren’t your friend. Don’t hate them. Recognise their hard wired and societally spawned games and avoid them. Make sure that every encounter is within your frame. My frame is not that of a woman hater, but that of someone that doesn’t have a need for a woman, will not pedestalise any woman, will not extend male style friendship to except after her proving that she signs up as an equal friend to me. I will not be a LJBF because I have no use for a woman who uses me in that way. I do, however, have a couple of female friends that have done favours for me over the years. Those friends, I do favours for, Tarn, if we ever met, would be such a good friend, because that is the kind of person that she is.

  30. “But it won’t work for the person who’s NEVER BEEN THERE, AND NEVER

    You know? I actually agree with that to a certain degree. I had that experience as a kid, however, you have access to the internet (I didn’t)…fleshlights etc weren’t around in the 1500s when I were a kid. I’m not saying that the real thing is exactly the same. Not saying that the connection to another human is the same. What I am definitely saying is that afterwards? There’s a lot of sanity that returns to your mind. I do NOT believe (except if you’re an extreme case) in any of this ‘your brain on porn’ shite.

    You know the sketch in ‘There’s something about Mary’ about the baby batter? That scene fucking nails it.

    From a great album, the title says it all
    Leftfield – Leftism – Release The Pressure

  31. @Spawny

    I have no time to give Miss the response he deserves right now, but I think his problem stems from
    1. Unrequited desire
    2. Lack of self-love
    3. Denial of masturbatory needs
    4. Pedestalization of the female sex

    In my opinion, he should deal with #2 and 3 first, then #4. The last one, #1, should follow after that when his mind is less frazzled and hurting.

    Good distinction between LJBFs(aka resource leeches) and true friends. More people need to learn this!

  32. 1500s? You’re younger than I thought! πŸ˜‰

    You don’t *need* fleshlights (or dildos, or vibrators) to successfully masturbate. Rosy Palm and her 5 sisters get the job done quite well, thank you very much. Toys are good to have, and can be lots of fun, but one should know how one’s own body can interact.

    Is self pleasuring the same as sex? No.
    Is having an orgasm or two by yourself a great way to temporarily get sex off your mind and have clearer thoughts? Yes.

  33. (Sorry about the changed name there. The avatar remains the same, but the name can change)

    Moving forward from the ‘don’t wank to hate images’ theme, I also would recommend that you stop listening to angry music. In fact stop programming your mind with negativity in any endeavour. Find something that gives you energy, makes you happy, something positive.

    Stuff I listened to as a late teen (get a load of the outfits!). At the bottom of the comment. It had energy. I’m gonna spam you with other stuff too…sux2bu

    But I don’t care what you listen to, just make it positive – what the hell do you need more anger and negativity for? Do you think that it helps you? Find something to tell the world to piss off in a positive, energy giving way.

  34. Spawny

    I will answer you here. There are some irritating interruptions going on at my end. Looks like it’s going to be one of those days.

    BTW me September 29, 2014 at 12:39 PM πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰

  35. “Miss” (can’t you get a better name?)

    “Albert Camus said: β€œThe essential question about life was whether it was
    worth living at all.””

    I get that, I really do. But what’s your hurry?

    I can’t find the post that I was looking for, but I hope this addresses the issue in the same way as his earlier post

  36. re Swithy September 29, 2014 at 12:52 PM

    You two just being yourselves, was what did it for me. If I start to get specific, I’ll end up with a 50-page missive. Dammit, more interruptions here. I’ll come back.

    Just be yourself, Spawny. Do as you’ve always done. Give it to ’em or be kind according to their needs.

    First thing I remember somewhere in here was ‘struth / strewth. Your response had me thinking, there’s something about this bugger…

    Then when I ventured into j4m I found myself marooned on a dormant thread. Dunno how you did it, but you somehow sought me out and pointed me in the right direction. Altho we had bumped friendly shoulders, we didn’t owe each other a thing back then! Call it unsolicited kindness. And you gave me cuebats and “welcoming mats” after that. Small things like that, they all add up.

    You gave me mateship, me old mucker, something that we men of the Antipodes immediately identify and understand. There’s no part of our culture more deep down here. It’s in our DNA.

    I’m still 29, and you are a man of much greater wisdom and experience. Don’t change. Just be THERE for us, Spawny, for as long as you possibly can.

  37. @Cill

    “Just be yourself, Spawny. Do as you’ve always done. Give it to β€˜em or be kind according to their needs.”

    I can do that. It comes from realising the limits of what you can do for someone else. It also comes from being utterly uninterested in appeasing grievence merchants that will never be satisfied.

    E.g. Why try and make a feminist happy? It’s impossible. Assuming you can find something with which they have a legitimate issue, and fix it…they’ll just be back with another (real or imagined) one and an increased sense of entitlement. They will take and take until the cows come home and they’ll never be grateful, never care about men (maybe a few easy words, but no action, no real interest. e.g. where are the feminist camapigns for male DV victims shelters? around 50% of the victims being male).
    They keep telling the same lies (77c / 1 in 3/4/5, rape culture, patriarchy). They get the refutations…they’re back with the same lies the next day. I don’t mind an honest discussion, but I have no time for liars at all. There was a feminist academic claiming that there was no word for the hatred of men as a sex! i.e. no such word as ‘misandry’! You cannot tell me she didn’t know the word, she was just lying for effect. Pretending that there’s no word because why would you need one? it never happens. And that’s an ‘academic’. You can’t reason with such an ideologue.

    So my approach is, really, tough love. But real love for my brothers (and sisters, but brothers first and foremost) when it might help. Nothing for my enemies, they’re dead to me, I am indifferent to Hermionie’s UN BS #HeForShe #MyFatHairyArse. If they ever address reality, then we’ll take it very slowly. But currently? there’s nothing to be gained by even wasting breath on them. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. I’m utterly indifferent to the enemies of my sex.

    /end rant

    *graunching of the gear shift*

    I said I was really touched by what you said. I meant it. That is exactly why I pester the manosphere.

    Can’t say you were hard to reach though πŸ˜‰ Can’t even remember making an effort (though I would have done once I understood you).

  38. You, Spawny, are an Alpha among men. There’s a b-i-i-i-g difference between alpha-to-women and alpha-to-men. Sometimes men can come in a two-in-one package but still, the alpha that men see in him remains poles apart from the one that women see. An alpha among men is a man who is capable of achieving a physically better world, whether he does so directly or by organising others to do so, or whether he channels it in a slightly different way. The alpha among men is anathema to the feminists. They have done everything in their power to tear him apart, and in particular, to remove him from the consciousness of young men. I saw the fall-out during my furries / bronies foray.

    Your comment 160 in j4m
    I copied it into my personal book of notes for future reference.

  39. Dammit again, more interruptions here…
    I live miles from anywhere, no neighbours, 99% of the public who arrive at these parts are okay, but occasionally the troublemakers come in by boat, get pissed overnight and cut up rough next morning.

    Gotta go.

  40. UreSoFuni

    Er, I’ll take not that you’re not then, Spawny.

    Be you 4’6″ or 6’4″ I’d like to have had you with me here today.

  41. Tarnished

    It has been a bad morning. When a noisy boatload parties all night in the bay it’s one thing, but when there are two boats and they start exchanging challenges and insults across the water it usually leads to trouble. This lot boozed all night, went to shore in the morning and decided to hammer it out physically. Don’t worry, they can’t get at me, I’m on top of a cliff, but when I see a guy on the beach getting kicked seven colours of sh*t I feel obliged to go down and help him out.

    Anyway, it’s all over now. That’s what I meant when I said I’d like to have had Spawny with me here today. Sorry if it came out the wrong way. I was more heated up than I realized at the time. Adrenalin can affect a man that way.

  42. Cill,
    Your comments deserve better than I can do at 2:40am on a touch keypad.

    You also raise some interesting issues.

    I’ll see if I can do better tomorrow.

    I might do some of it via email via Tarn (who I’d prefer to keep part of that conversation). You’re welcome to reply to that email directly to me (you are welcome to this email address), just leave Tarn in it unless you have reason not to (I do not, but I’m happy to abide by your actions).

  43. I’m cool with you guys doing whatever. We are having a huge sale at my job right now and I’m driving back and forth watching my mom’s cats while she’s away (don’t even start… πŸ˜‰ ). I may not be able to respond as quick, but I can definitely read everything.

  44. Spawny

    Excuse my ignorance here. I will email you as if to tarn. How do we open her email to see each others messages? Now I know I’m showing myself to be a real dumbo! My only excuse is that I’m an “outdoor” man and haven’t spent as much time at a computer as you guys have. As when comes to social websites, well, I’ve never used them!

  45. Don’t worry about it, it’s easy. If you email Spawny, just put my email address in the CC line. Simple as that!

    If you are on a device that doesn’t differentiate between the Main line and CC line, just put both our addresses in the Main one. (Gmail and Hotmail allow this, not sure about others…)

    If you need better directions, just ask. πŸ™‚

  46. Again as an illustration of my stupidity I have to ask, how do I get Spawny’s email address?
    (cringing with embarrassment here)

  47. How about the one I forwarded? That should bring you up to speed since it has everyone’s email on it: Spawny to me, me to you…So now if you select “Reply All”, both of us should see it.

  48. I read in a recent issue of Time magazine that by the age of 40 (?) 96% of
    people have had sexual intercourse. I suppose an equal number will marry,
    or hope to marry.
    I don’t suppose that it’s possible for a person in my position to convey, to you
    96%, what it’s like to be a member of the 4%. You can make an informed
    decision about whether you want to have sex or not. The outcast can make
    no such decision. That decision has been preordained FOR him/her by God,
    “the fates,” or the simple fact that they are repugnant to other people.
    To be on the outside looking in, is like a scene I saw from the greatest film
    version of “A Christmas Carol, ” “Scrooge,” (195?) starring Alister Simm.
    The boy who played “Tiny Tim” is looking in the window of a toy store.
    All he can do is LOOK. Just like all I can do is LOOK. He has an appreciative
    attitude. He doesn’t want to see the set up of the toys disturbed.
    A woman goes into the toy store to purchase a toy boat for her child.
    For a split second, Tiny Tim has such a micro expression of dissapointment
    and AGONY on his face. But Tim has such a positive attitude, that he quickly
    recovers from his hurt and cheerfully focuses on some other toy.
    His mother asks him, “Did you have a good time LOOKING at the toys?”
    Ask 4% of the population, if they had a “good time LOOKING at the toys.

  49. Tarn ..

    Question 6 invalidates your results to me .. as a MGTOW / MGYOW / etc .. by virtue of the name alone it is self-evident.

    I can live with all the diversity in the behavior we demonstrate by function of our Going Our Own Way. That can’t mean you have a family.

    But that’s the great thing about MGTOW .. there is NO set in stone conditions if use.

    A poster asked.about women or no women. That can also be like the example above. I bet if you asked 100 MGTOW you would get 100 differing answers.

    As for me .. I love women. At a distance .. as a MGTOW kinda guy I realize you will always have interactions with women. I make them as pleasureable (for me) as I can.

    Again nothing set in stone. Which is why it works. Men in general don’t need a central command (th herd for th wimminz) to disseminate our marching orders. We have a bashido and we follow it. My bushido (aka code) is the bible.

    My faith .. my choice .. my wallet .. my decision .. my happiness .. my way or no way .. I’m flexible for family, friends and no one else.

    What can a MGTOW do to be free? Be debt free. Be moble .. if you don’t like your job or location then move. That means own as little as possible. Everything you own owns you. Plan for your retirement and plan well .. :@D

  50. @Honeycomb

    The whole married/not married thing has been one of the most commented on aspects of this survey. It’s truly a wonder! I initially thought that MGTOW necessarily meant single, but when I posted this question to a MGTOW forum I got a significant amount of backlash for making it a “leading question” and presuming MGTOWs were unmarried.

    I was unprepared for such big differences in how MGTOW is perceived by person A over person B.

    My bushido/code is also my religion. Though Wicca has no core book, and is a newer faith with minor pieces of older ones, there are many teachers and authors who’s current experiences help to shape this living faith. It stresses personal responsibility above all…something many more people could stand to practice.

    I totally agree with your mantra. My money is mine, to save or spend as I wish. My time is my own, to share or keep. My choices affect me first and foremost, and my decisions are my own. Input from friends and family is considered but not always used…input from associates and acquaintances is appreciated but not given as high regard, input from society at large is often toxic and promptly ignored.

  51. Tarnished:
    Again, I express my appreciation and respect to you for undertaking this survey. I’ve noticed the second part results late, so this reply is probably going to seem out of date, but here goes:

    Looking at the responses, especially the number of married MGTOW, suggests that MGTOW isn’t an aspect of the marriage strike. Rather the opposite, that the marriage strike is one aspect of MGTOW. MGTOW is living life according to your standards, with these standards’ adherence to societal norms being irrelevant. One of the most dominant traits of MGTOW is protecting yourself, since nobody else will. Since the most risky financial endeavor out there is marriage or LTR, the so-called “marriage strike” has come into being.

    In my humble opinion, the reason some of the mainstream media have given this marriage strike a minor (and misrepresented) view is that they (the media) love a victim story. It’s easier to make an appealing, victim story by portraying numerous attractive, successful single women who are stuck digging through the hordes of commitment-phobic man-boys, rather than make an honest report showing the massive financial risks a LTR has for a man.

    That said, I also look forward to the part 3 results.


  52. And I’ll express my appreciation that you took the time to comment…something that can never be too late.

    Your insights are invaluable. In fact, they’ve given me an idea for a post about the so-called “Peter Pan phenomena”. Thank you for your musings!

  53. Daccu,
    great points, I believe the preferred term is ‘fabulous single ladies’. The olderer the more fabulouser because…reasons and goodfeelz for the laydeez (menz? who cares?)

  54. Well…”menz? who cares?” except

    ‘where the hell are they and their delicious wallets, houses and pension funds that I can raid in divorce?’


    ‘why won’t they marry princess me? I’m fabulous. All the other fabulous older more mature princesses say, so. It’s inconveniencing me and my lifeplan, I deserve it all, after all’

  55. What they don’t wish to recognise is that many men don’t like talking about pay rises to their bosses either (I don’t). Many of them would also like to believe that the boss is fair, and so they don’t need to push. It’s the feminist default drive to claim the victory of victimhood.

  56. Truth. The only time I’ve ever spoken of money up front like that is when discussing starting salary. I’ve always gotten raises…even when doing things like lawn work or babysitting for neighbors…because it was noticed that I did an excellent job, not because I asked for it. The concept of working for a company where you *know* you’re doing above par work and nobody rewards you (aka wants to keep you satisfied so you’ll stay and produce more) seems strange.

  57. I’ve raised the issue, I just haven’t liked doing it. But at the end of the day, while I sometimes love my work, I am working in that company for the dosh. And more dosh gave me more options to improve life outside work. (I view money as a life-style upgrade facilitator, not an end in itself…mostly)

  58. I work for the money and for the fact that I enjoy working. Whether it’s raking leaves for the senior center, helping a neighbor put in a pond, finally getting a rescue dog to trust humans again, or ordering products for the store…being out and physically/mentally productive is the “bread and butter” of my personal fulfillment. I do enjoy my books, hobbies and videogames, but even if I won the lottery tomorrow I’d still work/volunteer.

    I’m one of those annoying types who starts to get itchy for a vacation to be over so I can get back to work, lol. πŸ˜›

  59. Ah, yeah..

    I’m not much into all that foreign lingo stuff. Kiwi is my native tongue, with Moriori for a bitta the old embellishment. But Yeah, nah bro, nice to make the old acquaintance. As long as you and I are here, put it there.

  60. Ha, the only other language I know is Spanish…or, as idiot Amurikans call it “Mexican”.

    But yeah, it is great to see you around these parts. πŸ˜‰

  61. Ah, yeah, lamington. You could offer a couple of them when asking the boss for a raise. Might work, might not. My own approach tends to be the old proven way, which is to carry a Kaui Club behind me back. Wasn’t it that yank Roosevelt who talked about carrying a big stick or something?

  62. Spawny:

    In reference to you comment to me, back on the 12th.

    I actually don’t think that the majority of women are thinking “gravy train” when it comes to marriage. I know that it happens, but I’m still convinced the majority of the women who want to marry but can’t find a husband simply cannot appreciate the risk that a marriage/LTR poses for a male.

    An good analogy is a bee sting. True story, my brother-in-law is allergic to insect stings…while he carries that injector thing, being stung could still prove deadly to him. Because of this, he and I look at bees and wasps in a very different light. To me, getting stung means pain and inconvenience; to him, it’s potentially life threatening. As a result, he tends to avoid things that take him into close proximity to stinging insects. It’s not that he’s lazy or childish… just that he has to weigh the necessity of the task which will put him in danger.

    Marriage 2.0 seems very similar between women and men. For a woman, a failed marriage usually means hassle and bother, plus a feeling of failure for entering into a relationship that just didn’t pan out. A man experiences the same hassle, bother and feeling of failure…plus an extreme financial risk. While there are lazy and childish men out there, I think the majority see the horrors that family courts can heap on an ex and honestly wonder if it’s all worth the risk.

  63. All that rings very true to me, Daccu.
    It’s not like they’re very interested in hearing about the male pov, so I don’t see anything changing soon.
    Things will only change when women demand change. That will only happen when they absolutely can’t avoid hearing our truth. That won’t happen until they’re desperate because they are being hurt by a lack of men willing to commit, or lack of attractive men willing to commit, I should say.

  64. Thank you for your input and the link, Honeycomb. I also don’t think you can truly be a MGTOW if you’re in a marriage, but as you can see not all men believe this. I appreciate you stopping by, and hope you have a pleasant day/night. πŸ™‚

  65. There’s a subculture out here who have found wonderful lovers in the succubi. Since MGTOW isn’t exactly a movement, more of a personal choice I can only speak for myself and those in my circle.

    We’re extremely happy with succubi as lovers, and frankly have women to thank. If we had never become sickened of being/feeling (as) a “disposable male” in post-feminist society, we never would have dared to try.

    What is interesting is the comment above about “getting away” from women at a monastery because of succubi often being there. Lol, that’s so true. But they aren’t there to torment, although the men probably feel that way.

    It’s not “getting away” from women, it’s embracing the feminine and deciding that it’s ok to not like women in today’s world.

    Succubi aren’t pushovers, oh, no! Anyone who thinks men don’t like strong women are sadly mistaken… but they are who they are: Strong, yet feminine. Women just aren’t women anymore. They’ve lost what makes them desirable to many of us. Just the way it is, we can’t be “shamed” for liking something that we’re just not attracted to anymore.

    To use a poor example: Miley Cyrus. Is that the new image of an empowered, sexual woman? I’ll pass.

    Succubi are loving, seductive, protective, and doting once they fall in love. They are a joy to make love with, and a joy to love in return. Having every thought read takes some getting used to, but, in the end it makes for a wonderful intimacy that can’t be duplicated.

    To be honest, I’m not so sure the relationship ends upon death, making it very sacred as well.

    In the eternal dance, everyone gets a partner.

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