Why I Support MGTOW

“I find your interest in us MGTOW fascinating because I believe you’re female if I read correctly, and you’re quite accepting of us.  I’m very curious about you.”

The above quote is taken from a recent comment left by a MGTOW gentleman, and highlights a question I receive on a near weekly basis: Why do I accept and support MGTOW?

While the short answer is “Why shouldn’t I?” it’s probably not good enough for some people, especially those who are justifiably cautious or suspicious of a female supporter. So, what are my reasons for promoting MGTOW?

1. I don’t think of myself as a woman.
I have numerous posts about this, so won’t reiterate it too much, but this is a big part of it.
Am I biologically female?
Does that mean I identify as a woman?
Do I therefore emphasize more with what men go through, and believe marriage is an incredibly risky decision for the Western hetero male?
Do I recommend MGTOW to single men I meet when the opportunity presents itself out of a sense of “brotherhood”?
You better believe it.
Anyone who wants to know more can look here: https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/tag/gender-dysphoria/

2. I believe in equality.
I’m sure I don’t need to inform many of my readers about the fact that real equality between the sexes has yet to be achieved. While feminists say that it’s women who get the short end of the stick, my personal experiences coupled with those of my closest friends (all of whom are male) and what I see in public tell a different story. As an egalitarian, I work towards true equal rights, and men definitely need help in this regard. Until such a time when males are appreciated and valued to the same extent that females are in our society, I firmly believe the MGTOW philosophy is best for men. See here for a sampling of the sexism men deal with that needs addressing: http://www.realsexism.com

3. I have no horse in this race.
Perhaps not the best reason, but it’s a reason nonetheless. I live alone, have a full-time job that I love, pay my own bills/college loans, own my car, and have enough left over to buy the videogames, comics, and miniatures that make up my hobbies. I don’t approve of the institution of civil marriage due to it’s inherent pro-female/anti-male outlook, and I absolutely do not want children of my own. I have been in a FwB relationship for the last 8 years with a great guy I love to spoil, but have no intention of marrying. Perhaps if I was a Tradcon who felt a male provider was a requirement to a good life, then things would be different…but I’m not. For more about my views on staying single, check here: https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/category/singlehood/

4. I’m not a hypocrite.
If I enjoy being an unmarried adult with sole access to my finances, a home that is precisely how I want it, and the ability to dictate how my free time is spent, why shouldn’t I support someone else who does the same? It’s certainly not up to me to dictate anyone’s life but my own. Call me a WGTOW if you must, I’m just living and letting live. For more posts about men going their own way, see here: https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/category/mgtow/

Hopefully this has satisfactorily answered the question, but if it hasn’t, or you just want more clarification on various points, don’t hesitate to comment below. Thanks for reading!


98 thoughts on “Why I Support MGTOW

  1. I support MGTOW because I want my sons and their generation to be able to make better choices in relationships without locking themselves into one before they have the slightest clue what it costs them – and I don’t just mean financially.

    Unless and until marriage dies off -or is radically altered to be more gender-neutral- and stops being a control contest with a winner and a loser, only MGTOW men will escape the societal trap which is marriage. MGTOW men will still have lives worth living, and not end up as empty souls enduring Thoreau’s “quiet desperation” as they await the grim reaper to release them from their self-damning Hell.

    My sons deserve no less than to learn from my mistakes. So far, they are on that path.

  2. I wish I could take the credit, Tarn. My participation in their education is by example and not by active mentoring. They grew up watching my travails and came to the conclusion (as did one of my daughters) that traditional marriage isn’t a good plan for one’s future. In fact, dating doesn’t appeal to them.

    They have friends of the opposite sex, but there is no interest in taking things any further than that. I consider that wise.

  3. As do I.
    Obviously I don’t disapprove of LTRs, but I am against live-in arrangements and the like. It’s good to see that your kids see the potential dangers.

  4. I attribute your viewpoints to your personality type. There are “rugged individualistic”
    women, just as there are “efette” men. People find other people’s preferences
    confusing. Live and let live is the best approach.
    But ARE you conserned with what happens when you get older? The world might look
    a lot different when you are 60. Be certain to get long-term health insurence.
    If you are alone at that age, and the body begins to deterioate it could be hell on the

  5. Continuing the what to use instead of firefox theme. here’s a copy of a comment I left on my place.

    Trying out a new browser…good!


    Iron is to Chrome as Pale Moon is to FireFox.

    There’re two download links. One for normal install and another for a portable installation. Now that one should be installable in a couple of different folders, each having a shortcut of their own on the desktop.

    This would allow the multiple personality disordered to have a separate copy of Iron for each head-mate personality…I think.

    Seems like a good browser so far. I added ‘adblock plus’, I might look for some script control doobries later.

  6. Getting insurance is almost as expensive as medical care anymore. How does one afford either when one gets to be 60, especially as one generally (according to a recent survey by Princeton Survey Research Associates International {PSRAI} http://www.bankrate.com/finance/consumer-index/financial-security-charts-0813.aspx) has very little left after the expenses of normal living to save for one’s Metal Years (Silver atop the head, Gold in the teeth, and Lead in one’s derrière).

    Increasingly I see signs that the global corporatocracy has adopted a policy analogous to Alan Grayson’s infamous dictum regarding ACA: “Don’t get sick, but if you do die quick.” This will reduce the surplus population without having to resort to one of those messy global conflicts.

  7. @Tarn

    Just stumbled across this article about a married couple who live apart:

    Personally, I don’t see much point to marrying under their conditions, but that’s their problem.

    It’s good to see that there are some people who see wisdom in maintaining separate residences in their relationships. I first encountered this concept in an interview with Katharine Hepburn back around the time Kennedy and Khrushchev were daring each other to fire the first shot to vaporize all life on Earth. She said that men and women shouldn’t live together, but should be close neighbors and visit often.

    I was young then, and knew nothing about the relational dynamics which make marital cohabitation such a tremendous struggle. But as I aged, I began to see the wisdom in it, especially as marriage became more of a contest for control for one’s own security and your partner can like it or get out.

    Now, with the prospects for the young being so poor to achieve the material success of their elders, it’s much more likely that they will end up living communally. “Ownership” of one’s space will thus become even more dear, and it’s defense will prove very contentious. I see where it won’t be possible to maintain a close relationship due to overcrowding and a lack of privacy, and the decision to live apart and visit will prove to be the better option.

  8. Indeed. I get some flak from others about how my FwB arrangement isn’t a true relationship (which is silly…even a normal friendship is a type of relationship) because we don’t live together. It’s as though understanding ones need for personal space, and living in such a way that it is acknowledged, is necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps it doesn’t build enough character?

    I’ve found the same with myself and women. A few years ago I went on a 5 day vacation with 2 female coworkers…by the 5th day I was biting my tongue and pulling my hair out. Compare this to the bi-annual vacations I take with my (male) friends, where I wish it could be just a day or 2 longer. Those of feminine minds are very different than those of masculine ones, and it shows.

  9. Ah, the gently familiar face of the sober Cockatiel…
    In the aftermath of a big birthday bash This.Is.Peace.
    Now, throbbing head permitting, I must catch up with you lot.

  10. Blurkel, another valuable comment from you. Go well, Brother.

    With my young cuzzies I’m in two minds. I don’t advise them against marriage because with only 2 exceptions all my rellies have done manifestly well out of marriage. I certainly inform them (female cuzzies too) as to the bias of the System.
    It has worked. They all hate the System and see feminism for what it is (a totalitarian monstrosity)

    Re: medical insurance
    I’ve had the cover for years and never used it. I toss it around in my head: If I cancel it I’ll suddenly need it, if I don’t cancel I’ll keep on paying for nothing…

    Tarn, as always I agree with all you say. I’m thinking of copying that phrase to Notepad for future use: “Tarn,I agree with what you say”. Sweet as.

  11. I don’t think Moe realizes it yet. The change will make a big difference to him. He might be hanging around Spawny’s right now. I’ll pop back and tell him. It needs to be trumpeted like Spawny’s movie star looks.

  12. Yes, well, this is good news indeed! With the slow technology we use here in the rugged Coromandel, the waits for moderation were interminable. Nothing happens quickly in the land of the Moehau Man.

    Mrs Moehau Man (my enthused old mum) says she’s very happy too. We shall read Tarnished’s latest post with passion and zeal.
    Good as Gold!

  13. Well you beat me! I’ve got a few more than that. To be fair I should now list them, but my sense of fair play falls short. I’ll think about it IF I can get ridda these blasted men who seem to think I’m the guru of rugby club songs… Mostly the women have retired for the night with the circumspection of the wise.

  14. But tarn, you m-u-u-st have more prejudices (might be the wrong word) than the 2 you’ve listed. E.g. men with small feet? Women with big hands? C’mon, there must be something!

  15. Men who have facial follicles or facial hair? Facial hair doesn’t do much for me, I’ve tried it and it doesn’t help with warmth. I wouldn’t mind losing my facial follicles either – save me the time and cost of buying razor blades.

  16. It goes without saying, I’ve a chip on my shoulder re feminism. Also, I have a prejudice against a certain type of man. When I see them gyrating and aping in front of equally ridiculous women it grates on my nerves whether the women respond to it or not.

    That’s not an intolerance of just behavior on my part. As soon as I see such men, I already “know” what silly buggars they are. It’s such a waste of male energy and time. Stoopid. Reality TV has made it stupider than ever. “The Bachelor”…(puke)

  17. It’s beyond the goblin hour in your part of the globe. So goodnight Tarn me old cobber. My boozed parting advice is: everywhere you go, always take the weather with you. In different words, that’s what sfcton meant.

  18. You go for it mate. Over and out from me.

    I still gotta be a good host here. My rellies have left, and it’s going off! It’s got to the stage where I don’t think they’d miss me if I quietly withdrew, but I need to stay alert for the livestock. You know what I mean.

    My biggest worry always is the dog, so he can come with me to my bedroom. He’ll alert me if any silly buggar upsets the horse or stock. I’ll still be up for hours yet. Maybe I should just tell them all to f*ck off? I might do that, even though they’re all good people. TIME GENTS!

    Goodnight tarn.

  19. Why MGTOW is important was made very clear to me this weekend.

    My SO decided to make formally official what had been evident (at least to me). She informed me in clear language that she is no longer interested in sex. At. All.

    Now, as I was a fool when young and married her, I am faced with a dilemma: obey the marriage vows and keep society happy, or do what seems obvious and risk complete economic disaster making divorce lawyers wealthier.

    Hindsight being 20-20, I shouldn’t have gotten myself into this situation in the first place, but there were few who had any inkling of MGTOW back then. The only one I knew who did was a friend of my brother. He had an older sister who married, and something (he never explained what) caused him to become seriously anti-marriage. He actually offered me his fairly new car as an escape to somewhere else to avoind my impending marriage (not that I took him up on that).

    It is to avoid seeing young men getting into this mess that I espouse MGTOW. Sharing knowledge of bad decisions what elders are supposed to do for the younger generations. This is my contribution.

  20. Why is she no longer interested?
    Does she realize how cruel this can be to a partner who wants to remain faithful?

    Unless it’s due to a painful medical condition, I can’t understand not wanting sex. Could this be her way of starting a divorce?

  21. The following article bears out comments I’ve heard from men in ltr. Women tend to lose interest in their partners but not in sex with other men:


    “What seems to be different is that while men in long-term monogamous relationships report that they long for variety, their interest in sex (with their partner) remains roughly constant – they still want sex with their wives/partners. Women, however, appear to lose interest in sex in monogamous partnerships. In the past, this was interpreted as confirmation of women’s lower libido and the result of having already “gotten what they wanted” = marriage.

    In light of recent research, it seems that women have not lost interest in sex; they have just lost interest in sex with their long-term partners. They carry the evolutionary baggage of a time when seeking new partners would have given them a fitness advantage, especially as they approach the end of their reproductive lives.”

  22. Cill,
    This is part of the reason I think demisexuality is different than typical sexuality…I am physically attracted to/can be aroused by looking at other men (especially in porn) but I still wouldn’t want to have sex with them. Even if I was incredibly horny and an attractive guy offered himself to me, I think I’d rather masturbate to relieve myself and wait to have sex with my FwB. I wonder how many others would do the same?

    In speaking to my friends, what you say is true: all of us would prefer to have variety in the confines of some type of relationship (FwB for me, girlfriend/wife for the other guys). It’s rare times like this I wish I had female friends, even just so I could see what they’d say about this topic. Although, who knows if they would tell the truth?

  23. Tarnished will only consider intamacy with her “FWB” because she STILL has a
    shred of decency in her. She recoils from the idea of being promicious. And she
    is correct in doing so. I’m just concerned that this “FWB” will desert her. He’s 14 years
    older. Will he stay over the long hall? Would he remain if, Heaven forbid, Tarnished
    lost her looks?

  24. Missattempts,

    No one is getting younger. That’s how life works. In my faith, you are born…you live…you die…you live again…repeat. Getting older is part of the cycle, which I embrace. Maybe if I thought my youth was all I am I’d think differently, but I know I’m more than a pretty face. I’m kind. I’m intelligent. I’m frugal. I excel at planning ahead and preparing for potential issues. I enjoy helping others, without the need for compensation. I found a career I enjoy and make friends who are worth keeping. I have a lot to offer that doesn’t have anything to do with my age. Since I will not marry or have children, this is not an issue whatsoever.

    Even if my FwB isn’t in it “for the long haul”, we will still be friends…only the benefits portion will be gone. Both of us know this and acknowledge that he may decide to find another partner someday. This is not a bad thing. People change. I would be sad if our relationship had to change like that, but if you truly love someone as I do him, you let them be happy…even if their happiness doesn’t involve you.

    If I got into a firery car accident tomorrow and lost all my “looks”, he would still be my friend. To me, that is what really matters. If this isn’t good enough for your life, that’s fine.

    But it’s good enough for mine.

  25. The research indicates that women lose sexual interest in the “long term” partner when his children by her have reached a certain age (2 to 5 years according to other research). At that stage, in times gone by, she would reject him in favor of the next male.

    A characteristic of “demisexuals” is that they prefer sexual monogamy for themselves. I wonder if a second characteristic might be that they will return the sexual attraction for their chosen sex partner for as long as they (the demisexuals) are receiving it? The research indicates that this is not typical of women.

  26. I’m not sure…I am the only one I know. Every other female I know IRL, mother and younger sisters included, have had at least 3 partners. Some of the girls (and guys) I went to college with would brag about having 10-15. I was still a virgin at that point, so I lied about having sex to keep the bullies away.

    I don’t know how much of it is my demisexuality, my mind type, or just “me”, but I’m up for sex at any given moment. My lover can just give me that look, and I lose all hope of *not* thinking about doing him. It’s a good thing he’s taller and bigger than me…

  27. Perhaps it’s not so much a matter of demisexuality as the difference between the genders.

    “The research indicates that this is not typical of women.” (me above at November 16, 2014 at 2:25 PM)
    The research also indicates, however, that men will return the sexual attraction for their partner for as long as they (the men) are receiving it.

    This does accord with what men in marriage or LTR are telling me. And you too, tarn. By now, I’m not surprised that you are more typical of the male than the female case.

  28. So mif you put the two together (demisexuality + male gender) you have someone who prefers one sex partner and will demonstrate sexual attraction to that partner for as long as it is reciprocated.

  29. Yup. Pretty much describes me to a T. Interestingly, even though ours is only a FwB arrangement and he’s under no constraints to be monogamous with me, my lover hasn’t felt the need to have another partner the entire time we’ve been “together”. I wonder if it’s because of the consistency/variety/level of satisfaction both of us have in regards to sex? Given the above information, I’m leaning towards that explanation…

  30. “Are you still cohabiting with your wife, or living apart?”

    Cohabiting is the only possible option right now. There are many reasons why this isn’t going to change soon.

  31. “Why is she no longer interested?”

    She claims to not feel any interest in sex anymore. She’s always been very low libido.

    “Does she realize how cruel this can be to a partner who wants to remain faithful?”

    I guarantee she doesn’t care.

    “Unless it’s due to a painful medical condition, I can’t understand not wanting sex. Could this be her way of starting a divorce?”

    No. Her parents divorced when young and she still carries the emotional damage. She’s not about to follow that path herself.

  32. “…it seems that women have not lost interest in sex; they have just lost interest in sex with their long-term partners.”

    If so, then she lost this desire immediately after we returned from our honeymoon. That was when she told me that once a month was enough for her. It’s been thus ever since.

  33. “If so, then she lost this desire immediately after we returned from our honeymoon. That was when she told me that once a month was enough for her. It’s been thus ever since.”

    What?! Holy…wow. I’m really sorry, Blurkel. Honest to the Gods, I am. 😦
    You, sir, are an absolute saint to have never wandered. Even with my tendency towards monogamy, I think I’d be hard pressed not to take on a mistress if my partner was that uncaring…I mean…once a month?

  34. The happiest relationships I’ve seen are the ones where she doesn’t have a mindset against keeping him happy sexually. I’ve seen fairly stormy relationships survive quite well for that reason. Her mindset permitting, most men will stay happily monogamous. I never did understand why women can’t see this.

    The research quoted above confirms what I’ve “known” for a while now: women are the ones who turn off sexually. They seem determined to push their men into the arms of other women, while insisting that they must not. I can’t believe it’s not a state of mind that they can’t fix easily by themselves.

    Also, with women’s attitude towards their partners, I can’t believe they truly want their relationships to last. Again, the research agrees with me. Their instinct is to trade him in for a new model after 2 to 5 years and they turn off the sex to achieve it

    All the more reason for MGTOW.

  35. @Spawny
    I promise to let up if he ever complains. 😉

    Actually, if truth be told, he has declined sex about 5-6 times in our 8 years. I, on the other hand, never have. My poor love has truly bad headcolds sometimes…

  36. “There are many reasons why this isn’t going to change soon”

    Yes, you gave those reasons some time ago. I just wondered if anything had changed. I want you to know, I’m with you brother.

  37. “I’m just concerned that this “FWB” will desert her. He’s 14 years
    older. Will he stay over the long hall? Would he remain if, Heaven forbid, Tarnished
    lost her looks?”

    I find it very interesting that all of the old excuses moralists tend to offer to defend marriage have come out in that article. Not a hint of awareness that a piece of paper and some religio-legalistic mumbo-jumbo doesn’t prevent any of this either.

    And it’s “haul”, not “hall”. As in “bearing a burden” as opposed to “a passageway which connects other rooms”. If it only were! Imagine marriage as a hallway which allowed separate residences and activities. But then, people might like life better. Can’t have that!

  38. “I wonder if a second characteristic might be that they will return the sexual attraction for their chosen sex partner for as long as they (the demisexuals) are receiving it?”

    It would make sense to me if this was the societal norm for everyone and not just demisexuals.

    My kids are descended from the Lenape of the Pennsylvania-Ohio region through a great-great-great-grandmother. It was a practice of the tribe that if one person lost interest in living with another, that person’s belongings were put outside the dwelling. All could see that it was over, and the ousted partner was free to make other arrangements.

    It should be thus today.

  39. Ok, if I can just say something as a female-bodied person for a moment:

    What the fuck? Honestly, what the fuck? There is no reason, outside of legitimate issues that cause mental/physical pain, that women shouldn’t want sex…especially if they have a partner who cares about their pleasure too! For crying out loud, the multiple orgasms *alone* should ensure that men who are steady partners have to tell their women to lay off for a bit.

    Maybe it’s just me, but saying no to sex “because you don’t want it” is like saying “I don’t want a delicious meal made precisely to my specifications”. How many men would be happy to have just about any type of sex their wife initiated? How many would be willing to try 90% of what their women could come up with? Having sex as a woman is like being at an all you can screw buffet…so little is off limits that you don’t even notice the few things that might be a “no-go”. Who, in their right mind, says “I don’t want to feel amazing screaming pleasure that blinds me…it’s just not my thing.” Hell, even if you have trouble orgasming, you *have* to know your man enjoys it. If you truly love someone, wouldn’t you help them feel good, even if it didn’t do much for you, so long as it doesn’t hurt?

    I just…arrghh. Can’t even form coherent sentences right now. Excuse me. 😡

  40. “You, sir, are an absolute saint to have never wandered.”

    I doubt I’ll ever be canonized! I admit that I thought about it frequently!

    “Even with my tendency towards monogamy, I think I’d be hard pressed not to take on a mistress if my partner was that uncaring…I mean…once a month?”

    Yes. And no self-abuse either. Her or nothing.

  41. “Blurkel, I have no words that I can post.”

    Your reply says all that needs saying. Thanks for your support.

  42. “I’m sorry!”

    Me also!

    “I hope that I’m not being cruel talking about this. I can absolutely shut up if you want.”

    Believe it or not, I am not especially affected by the formal announcement of what has been my life for several decades. I’d much rather that open discussion take place so that those similarly afflicted know that they are not alone.

  43. @Blurkel
    “And no self-abuse either.”

    …what? Please, for the love of everything good on this planet, tell me you don’t mean “no masturbation”.

    Because if that’s what you’re saying, then forgive me when I say “Screw that shite”. I will refrain from typing what I am thinking right now about your wife out of respect for your relationship.

  44. “I will refrain from typing what I am thinking right now about your wife out of respect for your relationship.”

    The sad thing is, it’s more common then not. Hence MGHOW for me.

  45. Gods, I feel so angry about this.
    It’s not an emotion I’m all that familiar with…I don’t like it. Can only imagine how you feel, Blurkel. If there was anything I could do for you, I would. Believe me.

  46. “…especially if they have a partner who cares about their pleasure too!”

    THIS is the distinguishing factor lacking in far too many relationships. Men aren’t the only ones victimized in this manner. Life is replete with tales of men not caring to satisfy their women. And in response, there are women who see it as their life’s mission to take revenge on all men via the men unlucky enough to be involved with such women. It’s gotten to the point where some women assume this to be the norm for relationships as taught be their elders.

  47. @Blurkel

    Oh, I know sexual dissatisfaction isn’t a male-only issue. I consider myself exceptionally lucky to be as I am…I’ve heard talk of women who take over 4 minutes to have a single orgasm, even when their most sensitive places are being worshiped. I can’t imagine what that must be like. It’s little wonder that women who have casual sex/one night stands report having incredibly unsatisfying sex. If the guy is essentially using your body to get his rocks off, that’s horrible of him.

    But likewise, it’s horrible if women do it too. I don’t know how common the issue is, but sometimes my love is so stressed he can’t relax enough to orgasm, which just makes him more stressed. If he was with a partner who didn’t slow down and massaged him to relax the muscles…if he was instead with a woman who took it as a personal affront to her desirability or looked down on him as a man (both of which I’ve heard of happening)…Well, that is terrible too.

    If you are going to have sex, have sex with the *whole* person.

  48. Cill,

    No. I don’t think anyone here could fault you. Our dearheart Blurkel is a veritable font of knowledge and wisdom. I only wish it did not come at the cost he has paid.

  49. “MGTOW is seeming to be the absolute best option for men everywhere.”

    That is the simple truth. Without a crystal ball to confirm that she is the unicorn we long her to be, we are best on our own.

  50. Blurkel is in a good position to speak. You tell me, brother, alone is better than your situation, and I believe you. FWIW you have helped this one man, at least. It might be small in the big order of things, but to me it’s huge.

  51. Seriously, Blurkel…you ever need to vent about anything, there’s numerous doors that are always open for you. Here and at Spawny’s, at the very least.

    Take care, dearheart.

  52. I’m back, if just to answer the backlog. Work beckons.

    “…tell me you don’t mean “no masturbation”. ”

    YUP! Sex is to be provided by my partner – and ONLY when she feels like it. She sees masturbation as cheating, if you can imagine that.

    “I will refrain from typing what I am thinking right now about your wife out of respect for your relationship.”

    Thanks. I’m sure I have enough venom to go around right now. But sticking to the facts is more important than me venting over something now official that I’ve seen coming for years.

  53. “The sad thing is, it’s more common then not. Hence MGHOW for me.”

    While I can’t claim scientific certitude, my casual surveying of coworkers agrees with your assessment. I even have heard from a few women with similar issues in their relationships. It’s a shame I can’t connect with one of them! Despite their experiences, they still seek monogamy, even matrimony, and I won’t go there again.

  54. “If there was anything I could do for you, I would. Believe me. ”

    You already are, Tarn, in providing a forum with understanding participants. At this time, more isn’t required.

  55. “If you are going to have sex, have sex with the *whole* person.”

    Major wisdom good for all! Concise, to the point, and accurate – as all good advice should be!

  56. “Our dearheart Blurkel is a veritable font of knowledge and wisdom.”

    MUSH! Flattery will get you everywhere!

    “I only wish it did not come at the cost he has paid.”

    I survived, so the purpose now is to pass along my experiences so that others benefit from them. Nothing important comes with little cost.

  57. “Cill, You speak the truth. Does not make it less depressing though.”

    Let’s shift the focus a bit. As is said, everything has a beneficial purpose – if only to serve as a bad example. The sorry state of my relationship should serve as a reminder that either yours is much better or that you aren’t in one of these yourselves. Letting my misfortune drag you down isn’t what this should be about.

    I repeat – I’ve seen this coming for years. It was only a shock in that she finally saw it and said something without me pushing her about it.

  58. Tarnished: I am completely revising my viewpoints about you! You ARE rare.
    And that’s why you should be valued. Beware jealously.
    You permit a diversity of opinions. Many others DO NOT permit a difference in
    viewpoint. You seem to reckognise that having an open forum is for the best in the end.
    I have known MANY that come from simular back rounds from you. But only a few that
    triumpthed over advesity as you have. I have not the slightest doubt that if there were
    more people like you, and more people who could see the value of people like you,
    the world would be a much better place!

  59. “my casual surveying of coworkers agrees with your assessment”

    Apart from my relatives, every married or LTR man I’ve spoken to speaks of a sex-deprived (if not sex-starved) existence. The research I quoted indicates that refusal of sex is the on-going situation in most marriages and LTR, and that it is usually the women who are doing the refusing.

    It’s also the case that if a man says “OK if there’s to be no sex between us I’ll seek it elsewhere” (or even if he just sulks) with the result that she relents and allows sex, he is guilty of rape.

  60. Thank you for the kind words, Missattempts.

    I allow different opinions so long as there is no forcing of them upon others. As my lover calls it “Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.” If anyone wants to hold ideologies that are extremely different from mine, I’m accepting of this so long as they don’t try to convert me or talk down to my commenters and readers.

    I’m still a bit confused about your “deathtrap” comment from yesterday though. Did you believe that just because my love life was non-committal that I’d be frivolous with my financial planning? If so, you’ve no need to worry…I have always had a mind for finances, and don’t partake of much materialism.

    Ones true treasures are the precious moments that we spend with the people we love, not physical objects. Things like shiny rocks or big televisions are cool to have, but real wealth is measured by the memories you make.

  61. “Apart from my relatives, every married or LTR man I’ve spoken to speaks of a sex-deprived (if not sex-starved) existence.”

    Same here. Even my friends who have good/decent wives or girlfriends admit to having far less sex than they had expected…or asked for.

  62. Tarnished, I just thought that if you had no one when you got deep into middle
    age, and your body begins to give out, medical expenses would be so great that
    either you would end up in the poorhouse or get skimpy healthcare. I know from my
    own experiece how awful a caretaker’s role can be for sick elderly people.
    My parents never took out a long care health insurence policy. My mother
    developed adult onset diabetus, and her bodily functions began to deterioate
    little by little. She would mess herself. Health aids came but they were not 24/7 and
    sometimes did’t show up at all. No one wants to see the same sex parent naked.
    I knew I was going to die a virgin and I didn’t want my only memory of a naked female
    body to be my mother’s. Emptying commodes was bad enough, but “tolorable,” but
    I didn’t want to put my hands near those “areas.” Luckily. my elderly father was
    avaible. But panic was a DAILY occurance, especially when she fell down, and we
    would have to call the cops to help pick her up. Round the clock aids would have helped,
    but we never took out the insurence. If you DO antisipate being alone at that age, it’s
    best to be covered. For example, my aunt got hit by a truck. She is slowly deteriating
    and doesn’t know where she is. My uncle had wisely taken out long term insurence
    so my aunt is never without help. Your body SHOULD hold up because you are
    taking care of it NOW, and you will probably have a good “nest egg” in your 50’s.
    The “Death Trap” statements were really too extreme. Most MGTHOWs would NOT
    go out of their way to harm you. I was refering to the REALLY vicious “incels” that
    hate the entire female gender. There’s NO appeasing them because their sickness
    is INSIDE their heads.
    BTW, please Google the song “Sometimes When We Touch,” by Dan Hill. Listen to
    the lyrics. I think it describes your situation! Another great song is “The Air That I
    Breath,” by the Hollies. Thanks!

  63. Reports are now emerging that criticize Feminism head on in ways that would have been unthinkable not long ago. Take this report from a highly respected newspaper, The Australian (http://brendanoneill.co.uk/post/102615841949/womens-lib-no-longer-on-agenda-of-todays):
    “Women’s lib no longer on agenda of today’s authoritarian feminists”
    “Feminism is no longer a women’s liberation movement — it’s a women’s authoritarianism movement… With its promotion of panic about sex, prudish censorship and urge to punish moral deviancy, feminism now comes across as a pastiche of the Victorian outlook that the early feminists challenged.”

    It looks as if we’re starting to see the beginnings of the sea change I’ve been harping on about at spawnyspace. A whole lot of other links on the spawnyspace blog confirm it too.

  64. The article linked by Cill is written by left wing Brendan O’Neill. It’s a big switch of direction by him, which will alarm Feminists!

  65. I must admit I’m still a bit skeptical but if what you say is true than I welcome you as an ally… I have a son in college and I’m worry for him especially with this new yes means yes law. I tell him not to date on campus and pay for sex while in college. This is the thinking that I’m reduced to in the 21st-century as a Male sad isn’t it?

  66. It is indeed sad. But at least you are knowledgeable enough to give him this information. There are far more boys and young men who are completely blindsided once away from home and in the college environment. It is good that he has you looking out for him.

    If I may, are you skeptical about anything I’ve written in particular, or simply surprised that someone with a vagina is a MGTOW supporter?

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