Do women ever Go Their Own Way?

Some do, they are few and far between. For the most part,women who are single past age 25-30 often write posts that speak more to a false sense of  “you go grrl” mentality or worse…a lamentation of “where have all the good men gone”.

And herein lies the problem: many men can become MGTOWs without batting an eye, but relatively small numbers of women could claim the same stance with the same amount of happiness/satisfaction. All humans are primates and thus social creatures…but it’s probably safe to say that the female side of our species is  more dependent (on average) than the male side for relationships. Whether this is biological or an aspect of socialization, I don’t know. It is most likely a bit of both.

Regardless, this is why you don’t see a large number of women going their own way, yet you see a veritable horde of men doing so. MGTOWs will always outnumber WGTOWS. That’s just the way of things. It should also be noted that living off a late husband’s pention, collecting alimony, or being on welfare is not indicative of going your own way. Sorry, but if you aren’t living based off your own abilities, merit, and work ethic, you are depending on someone else to pay your way.

If you are a new reader who is interested about this topic, here are some other posts I’ve penned about my happiness in staying single and free. However, it should be noted beforehand that I’m only committed to my bachelorhood due to my love of independence/freedom, not because of any nonexistent feminist leanings or foolish ideas about men being “immature” or “not good enough”. There are a plethora of great men out there…one of them has even been my FwB for 8 years…but they are not for me to wed. Let’s rejoice in our shared freedom, MGTOW brethren!

https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/the-cheese-stands-alone/

https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/why-going-your-own-way-isnt-a-bad-idea/

https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2014/02/14/perks-of-singlehood/

Advertisements

47 thoughts on “Do women ever Go Their Own Way?

  1. Being independent or being romantically unattached is incidental to do with the issue.

    The essence of MGTOW is the response of self-protection and care in the face of legal and cultural circumstance that are adverse to men’s freedom and well-being.

    Relationship status is a byproduct of not stepping into a potential danger-zone, not an identifying marker.

    Try this reframe: rather than married or single, use the idea of trapped or not-trapped. An animal can be not-trapped, yet still not be actively aware and avoiding of the dangers around it.

    MGTOW is the alertness accompanied by self-preservation. Being unmarried is merely a technique akin to noticing a post in the ground with a chain that leads to a pile of leaves, and steering clear of it.

    Can women be WGTOW? If women have such legal and cultural adversities to contend with that requires such steps, I’m not aware of them.

  2. This is true, Francis. If MGTOW is not defined as the pursuit of an independent and self-controlled lifestyle free from the shackles of matrimony, and is reliant on the aspect of protection you mention, then I agree with you.

    However, my post here was more in response to those who believe ;
    1. Members of the female sex cannot be happy or lead a fulfilling life without being in the confines of a marriage/fully committed relationship,
    2. Members of the female sex are constantly looking for a provider and have no real desire to succeed in their chosen career path,
    3. Members of the female sex are unhappy unless they become mothers at some point,
    4. Members of the female sex only stay single because they can’t find a willing mate, not because they made a conscious decision in their teens to never go through what they saw their parents or other adults go through in married life.

  3. I think most women are inherently nesters, and desire children, and a partner they can share a life with. One can look at that cost as “chains” but I don’t think of it that way.

  4. “… this is why you don’t see a large number of women going their own way…”

    I have to disagree.

    Women have had for about 100 years since the passage of the 19th Amendment the power in our society to do pretty much as they wish. Having the vote means having the ability to create the governmental structure they desire, much as men have had throughout history. It took until the late 1960s for enough women to see this before they began to use that power, something men have increasingly abandoned.

    The traditional “way” women once went was essentially marriage. But increasingly, there is emerging evidence of distaff discontent over the remaining prospects. Women aren’t as willing to settle for the first warm male carcass with a pulse anymore. If they can’t have all of their marriage partner expectations met, they’d rather not bother, thank you very much.

    This isn’t yet so widespread that the media notices, but there is enough of it that certain bloggers see it. Some women ARE getting the word, and I expect that this trend will continue to grow. The crappy so-called economic boom which eliminates the ability to support a family will have a great deal to do with this growth.

    Thus, women aren’t more or less likely to go their own way. That remains failry constant. It is the way they choose to go that is changing.

  5. Tarn said “the pursuit of an independent and self-controlled lifestyle free from the shackles of matrimony.”

    What you are doing is assigning the title MGTOW to the simple notion of bachelorhood, stripping out the essence and drive of the phenomena, and then saying that a woman who chooses to live on her own terms is a variant of MGTOW.

    This redefinition is how terms lose their meaning, and the actual issues get stripped out and buried.

    Then again, it’s just a word.

  6. “This redefinition is how terms lose their meaning, and the actual issues get stripped out and buried.”

    I’d agree, except for the fact that I’ve seen MGTOWs themselves define it exactly as I have above. Perhaps this goes back to the fact that MGTOW is, by it’s very definition, a highly individualized ideology with no set-in-stone “rules”. Remember how many answers were given for my survey?
    Question 1: What does MGTOW mean to you?
    Of 22 respondents, they said it’s:
    -5 Adapting to social changes (23%)
    -7 A necessary protective stance (32%)
    -10 Living according to own standards (45%)
    Obviously, you were part of the 32%. But I’d say the men who were part of the 45% and 23% were just as “correct” in their own definitions.

    Until MGTOW becomes a strict ideology with actual tenets that members must adhere to in order to be considered such, there won’t ever be a true definition. An 17 year old boy MGTOW with no relationship experience with define it differently than a 45 year old twice divorced man. A MGTOW in Panama will define it somewhat differently than one in the UK. A married man will say he’s a MGTOW despite his status, while another will say he can’t possibly be for the same reason. Recall how 45% of my respondents said “Married men can be MGTOWs”.

    Now, I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. Quite the opposite! The inherent power of MGTOW is that there is no “leader”. It’s individual men coming to the same conclusion, whether they know it has a name or not, and making choices based on this new knowledge. Would some men like to be under a more regulated banner of MGTOW? Yes, as my post “Helping a MGTOW” proved. But most will not, hence MGTOW can be almost anything so long as it involves going your own way.

    At the end of the day, it truly is just a word. 😉

  7. Francis,

    One thing that does still confuse me about MGTOW is the fact that nearly every one I’ve spoken to isn’t also a MRA. I’d have thought that they’d be natural bedfellows…many MGTOWs are going their own way not because they don’t desire marriage, but because the current legal system is so against the male partner in such an arrangement, as shown in the plethora of answers given in my survey;
    Question 14: What are the 3 biggest aspects of society that would have to change to make you consider not being MGTOW?
    Of 22 respondents, the most mentioned changes were:
    -11 Always be MGTOW (50%)
    -4 Less restrictive gender roles (18%)
    -5 Return to patriarchal families (23%)
    -6 Alter how the media portrays men (27%)
    -7 Readily available male contraceptives (32%)
    -3 Repeal female voting rights (14%)
    -4 Eliminate “no fault” divorce (18%)
    -3 Decrease government interference in marriages (14%)
    -5 Create fully equal laws (23%)
    -4 Eliminate lifetime alimony (18%)
    -5 Teach women to be more kind/respectful to men (23%)

    Okay, so half of my respondents would always be bachelors…they don’t seem to be reacting to the law as much as they are embracing a life free from the explicit interference of another person. But the other 50% had great ideas for changes that could help men get a foot up on equality. I agreed with every change other than taking away someone’s right to vote based purely on their sex…for obvious reasons.

    Yet I don’t see MGTOW groups forming to petition these issues, or joining MRA groups to combat legal/cultural sexism. It’s strange to me, especially as the male gender is generally the more active of the two…Were there such a group within 3 hours of me, I would gladly work with them towards altering the legal system to be more pro-men.

    Why aren’t more MGTOWs also MRAs?

  8. Yet I don’t see MGTOW groups forming to petition these issues, or joining MRA groups to combat legal/cultural sexism.

    This is funny, because this is the very observation that created the term MGTOW. Here’s a quote from one of the original MGTOW group.

    “You see all the ideas were floating around on the internet. We were frustrated that we couldn’t get men to build an organization, couldn’t get men to come to this damned meeting- everybody was going their own damned way, and the fact that men went their own way, we started to use that phrase and we started to talk about what’s important for men… who’s going to define their masculinity? Well, they actually have to do that themselves, they have to find out what it is for themselves. So, as you have the responsibility for your own actions, well then it’s also your responsibility to define who you are as a man.” Ragnar

    It’s strange to me, especially as the male gender is generally the more active of the two…Were there such a group within 3 hours of me, I would gladly work with them towards altering the legal system to be more pro-men.

    We may be more active, but what we aren’t is as cooperative. Women always seem to have that “Let’s play together!” instinct, whereas men generally don’t. I admit this for myself. I’ll work with another, but only on my own time and schedule. Call it a character flaw.

    Why aren’t more MGTOWs also MRAs?

    I honestly don’t know. Seems to me that many MGTOW have an odd kind of ideological tribalism. I think that would be an excellent question to poll among your countless admirers.

  9. Interesting stuff, indeed. Thanks for the link.

    I don’t necessarily believe that men need a “play nice together” mentality to accomplish goals…just a single starting point that they can agree on and work to change. For example, the concept of a male birth control pill appeals to a great deal of both MGTOWs and MRAs, and even “regular” guys. Isn’t it possible for a group of like-minded men to form petitions, collect signatures, do some fundraising, and just generate wider support for the male Pill? Guys from all walks of life could do this. Think of how many minor differences there were between the men who signed the Declaration of Independence…yet they came together to work towards something they all believed in. Men may not be as well known for being cooperative, but history is overflowing with examples of men who *were*, even if only temporarily.

    Lol, I don’t think I have countless admirers…in fact, a lot of manospherians think that the fact I am of the female sex is indicative of me being a spy or trying to sow discourse. I don’t care though, because their personal opinions don’t make me want to stop putting the word out or helping.

  10. Tarnished, I think you said above, that your motivation for being a WGTHW was
    NOT to repeat the mistakes your parents made-to be free from marriage and
    children. Could it be because of your own personal situation, that you have a skewered
    view of marriage and children?
    After all, both your biological and stepfather’s abused you. It’s extremely rare that
    a biological AND stepfather would abuse a person. Was your stepfather known to your
    biological father? There is a type of pedifile who intentionally marries so he can have
    “ready made” victims. Also, was your mother oblivious to BOTH incidents? Did she
    know or was she in denial? Could your “critical” attitude about women be due to anger
    that your mother either didn’t see or didn’t want to see the abuse?
    I told you this scum can zero in on victims. They have a kind of “rador” that tells them
    who the vulnerable ones are.
    Also, it’s good that you have SOMEONE. They say that a bullied child can weather
    the storm as long as he/she has ONE friend. But if, heaven forbid, your relationship
    with your FWB goes south, to you have the emotional wherewithall to form a new
    one with a different person?

  11. Tarnished said “Yet I don’t see MGTOW groups forming to petition these issues, or joining MRA groups to combat legal/cultural sexism.”

    Experiments show a polar difference re in-group bias :

    “Four experiments confirmed that women’s automatic in-group bias is remarkably stronger than men’s… men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic own group preference
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274

    Can men organize a defence against their own male nature? Where to start? If they do will humanity end?

    I have J-u-u-s-t enough breadth of mind to understand, the broader mind of Man makes him defenceless against women! Women are so narrow their ears touch! >:D No kidding, think manufactroversies etc.

    (Still waiting for someone to tell me I’m a tomboy!)

  12. Neither men nor women go their own for the most part. There are some that do however. The nonkhood/nunhood of varioius religious and philosophical systems (such as Jainism, Buddhism, etc) provide means for women as well as men to shun mainstream materialism in favor of a single life of simplicity.

    In a sense that’s not really going your own way though as you are still in the confines of a social system. But there are many who leave those systems and just continue on their own as well as some who never formally enter into such systems but lead single and spiritual lives anyway.

    There are also groups of people going their own way and creating conscious communities, intentional communities, what used to be called “communes”.

    There are many ways to buck this sick, vapid, materialistic system.

  13. ” Isn’t it possible for a group of like-minded men to form petitions, collect signatures, do some fundraising, and just generate wider support for the male Pill? ”

    Its just another excuse for vapid, materialistic promiscuity which is mainstream. Besides the male pill was already invented several decades ago and the reason it was never marketed is because they did a poll and men said they would not take it because they feared it would mess with their hormones and prevent them ever being able to reproduce in the future.

    With no prospects of money being made, they powers that be tossed the idea.

    I think men need to go the monk route. You don’t have to believe in god to become a monk in many traditions and you don’t have to commit your entire life to that way of life, but at least for a period of time, a year or two, it will do you good to break out of the matrix.

  14. I knew a young man who reminds me of Tarnished. He came from a broken home.
    He was passed around to various foster families. He told of his horrid childhood.
    He was sexually abused. He told me one time of an elderly man that abused him.
    He said that when the man died, he felt that he caused it.
    He was not allowed to grieve. When a foster sister died,and he wanted to bring it up,
    a recieved a slap in the face for his troubles. A neighbour noted to his foster mother
    that he seemed to have a sad expression on his face. His “mom” said, “You better
    start looking happy-OR ELSE!”
    He was a lousy sleeper, and suffered from night terrors. He would often miss his
    bus stop because he fell asleep on public transportation. When the topic of
    insomina was brought up, I asked him: “Were you ALLOWED to get any sleep
    at night? He gave me one of those “looks” but wouldn’t answer the question.
    He developed a very tough hide that males who undergo these tortures undergo.
    He called it his “fortress.” He described himself as a “rock.” He often lapsed into
    scarcasim, especially when confronted with dishonesty or “cop outs.”
    Still, he was NOT self pitying. He had a good work ethic and was genuinally wanted
    to improve.
    His strength was his salvation. Once, when asked my opinion of him, I said he showed
    sighs of GREATNESS. He trimupted over his adversity, were others would have been
    crushed. Especially his family members who were all weaklings and nere’do wells.
    And Tarnished wants to know why I admire her?

  15. Tarn said “a lot of manospherians think that the fact I am of the female sex is indicative of me […] trying to sow discourse.”

    But you are sowing discourse. Not discord, though.

    I don’t know if you did it on purpose, but that really is a lovely/edgy phrase. Let’s go sow some discourse!

  16. Tarn said “Men may not be as well known for being cooperative, but history is overflowing with examples of men who *were*, even if only temporarily.”

    This is true. We’ve built the world, despite our being unable to cooperate. I do think that guys are like short-term team members. We’re mostly solitary, then we get together to get the job done, hunt the meat, then split up again. I’d have to give it more thought.

  17. Yup. For a long time, 95% of men and 5% of women made the public sphere go round…reverse percentages for the private/home sphere. I see little reason that men can’t do that once again, especially given the technology and communication we now have at our disposal.

  18. “Yup. For a long time, 95% of men and 5% of women made the public sphere go round…reverse percentages for the private/home sphere. I see little reason that men can’t do that once again”

    For what purpose?

  19. “For a long time, 95% of men and 5% of women made the public sphere go round…reverse percentages for the private/home sphere. I see little reason that men can’t do that once again”

    As I see MGTOW, controlling the public sphere means that no one goes anywhere. Men would not be able to, as control over the public sphere would require constant attention. I see little advantage to that.

  20. “To swing the pendulum back and create a more equal society for all. Women should help as well, of course.”

    OK but so what? What is the point of all these swinging pendulums back and forth?

  21. Feminism made things more equal for women in general, but has now gone too far…it has become misandric, or at least dismissive of men’s needs. The pendulum must swing back to stop this and create equality between the genders and sexes.

  22. In case it wasn’t noticed, society is already beginning to smoulder. Men being largely in control now isn’t working out well for the majority of us. Those who end up losing certain advantages are more than ready to take it out on someone they blame, rightly or wrongly, for their deprivations.

    The world is drifting to war. It will take away the power a lot claim already. I don’t see an alternative but to step out as far as one can get and try to avoid the worst of it.

  23. That WGTOW might free themselves from the gynocracy, patriarchy, MRAs, feminists, white knights, captain-save-a-hos, MGTOW and anti-feminists would be most remarkable.

    It would be an experience only true MGTOW can yet understand. It takes the average MGTOW years to overcome the social programming and brainwashing that women project onto men. Yeah – I said it – even though some of you might not like it. Women project their expectations onto men. Men do the same to women. Many MGTOW never really become MGTOWs – they just think of themselves as MGTOW. I’m sure the same will be true of women.

    A world of true MGTOW and WGTOW would be fine with me. No expectations. Real equality.

    It’ll never happen.

  24. “Feminism made things more equal for women in general, but has now gone too far…it has become misandric, or at least dismissive of men’s needs. The pendulum must swing back to stop this and create equality between the genders and sexes.”

    And it will continue to swing, forever back and forth, until humans decide to stop the cycle and release themselves from suffering via The 4 Noble Truths.

    “Nothing is more misandric about men and their needs than a nation at war.”

    True!

    “The world is drifting to war.

    What do you mean “drifting”? So many wars are taking place right now as we speak.

    “True, but why does there have to be an actual war? ”

    See above. The future is now. You are not in the countries that are suffering from war so you are speaking from a privileged place. People in those countries don’t think of war in terms of future. They are living in the middle of war NOW.

  25. I agree that I’m speaking from a privileged position, but it’s the only one I…and most of my commenters/readers…have. If you are from or have lived in countries that experience war like this, then I invite you to share your knowledge.

  26. Tarn said

    Until MGTOW becomes a strict ideology with actual tenets that members must adhere to in order to be considered such, there won’t ever be a true definition.

    Yep. And I’m starting to get really annoyed with this. The deeper that I probe, the fewer agreements that I find. At the moment, I’m considering just dumping the term. I support men protecting themselves, taking care of themselves, and putting themselves first. I support keeping everyone accountable and being fair to all. The problem is that 20 ideologies would all claim to stand for this, and few of them actually would, yet, people would claim to be adherents to these ideologies because they meet these criteria.

    I’m feeling annoyed, grumpy, and frustrated with humanity at this moment.

  27. “I’m feeling annoyed, grumpy, and frustrated with humanity at this moment.”

    As well you should.

    Observation of duality is the first step to release from suffering.

  28. I can certainly sympathize with this, Francis. Would you like to talk more about it tomorrow? I’d like to help you, even if it’s just by listening and being a sounding board…

  29. Oh you are just way too nice! Not much that can be done about the human condition. I sometimes get irritated, but when I consider that I’m just as flawed as everyone else, I shrug my shoulders. But one thing I was thinking of, was that maybe you, I, Eldrich and Spawny might have a google hangout at some point, What do you think of that idea?

  30. There is no “need” for war, but it will come. Those who benefit from it are going to promote it, and expect us to wage it for them.

    The geopolitical situation is very much like that of 1914, only instead of national colonialism running out of conquests, it is corporatist colonialism promoting taking from another to enhance one’s own holdings.

    In Afghanistan, for example, both the Pentagon and the UN -in separate studies- concluded that there is over $1 trillion with a T in recoverable mineral wealth there. But is there any chance that miners could safely harvest it? No. US troops in Afghanistan defended a copper mine operated by the Chinese against the Taliban and other tribal opponents of being forced into the 21st Century. US taxpayers covered the cost. Aren’t we generous?

    The Ukraine is not about Russia as anyone who understands the impact of Operation Barbarossa knows. It is much more like the Cuban Missile Crisis, only the roles are reversed. The prize is a huge natural gas field, and vast agricultural lands. Who controls those benefits economically.

    Also, Africa has entered the scope of corporatism. There is reason to be sceptical of the cause of the Ebola outbreak, especially when the CIA in its World Factbook reports that the economy of Sierra Leone only uses 10% of the electrical generation capacity of that impoverished land. They were told that expanding this capacity would bring jobs and progress. Instead, it looks like cheap power and cheaper labor once the tribal rivalries which keep Africa poor and divided are eliminated by whatever means available. No one knows what wealth there is to be harvested there, but US Special Forces are now based in almost every African nation. Aagain, the US taxpayer covers the cost.

    So there will be war. The people no longer have control of the government, and can’t stop it.

  31. “But what about standing up for your fellow man? Helping those who can’t help themselves due to circumstances beyond their immediate control?”

    That is left to those who claim to be religious. Little by little, the government has been eliminating “entitlements” and leaving the need for volunteers to assuage. What little money was spent on such things which benefit mere humans has gone to other projects which exploit us.

  32. “I’m feeling annoyed, grumpy, and frustrated with humanity at this moment.”

    There is much to cause such disgust right now, especially as the calendar has advanced to the time of “peace on earth and goodwill toward men”.

  33. Why would women need to go their own way? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what MGTOW is but I always thought of it as a defensive strategy that men have taken up because feminism and the family court system have created an environment where women have a financial incentive to unload their husband or live in boyfriend and bleed him dry financially through alimony. What state sanctioned inequalities would women be dodging by going their own way?

    To be frank I don’t think the idea of staying single because you like it or don’t want to deal with responsibilities of a relationship should be politicized or even given a label.

  34. That is precisely what MGTOW is. I’m actually having a discussion with fellow blogger Francis about the term WGTOW and why it truly isn’t what females should be calling themselves. But I’ll have a real post about that later.

  35. “I’m feeling annoyed, grumpy, and frustrated with humanity at this moment.”

    Uh huh.

    I look at the leaders and wonder when they’re going to stop digging the holes deeper. Thing is, I don’t mind the walking dead scenario. Once the idiots get taken, at least you can build something again.

    My schedule opens up on Tuesday again, I currently am busy.

  36. Women going their own way? NO WAY! Not unless they’ve got plenty of money,
    or are so ugly no man would touch them.
    You qualify for the first. Thank God you don’t qualify for the second.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s